Greg Maddux

[Case Closed]

I am so confused by this thread.

[kyleb]

this thread keeps delivering

vyse lol

[pryor15]

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Greg Maddux? Hall of Fame?

He's only the 3rd best pitcher on his own team!

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and not even on a team in first place!

[ProfessorBen]

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this thread keeps leveling
vyse lol

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[J.R.]

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Why are we differing between unearned runs and earned runs again?

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Runs allowed is superior to ERA because it removes the very subjective component of errors from the equation. A pitcher's job is to keep runs from scoring. Regardless of whether a run results because of a fielder's poor range or poor handling, that should be of no concern to a statistician.

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Along these lines ERA hurts better pitchers, because better pitchers allow fewer of the guys who reach on errors to score. ERA sells good pitchers short and gives a break to worse pitchers by limiting the pitcher's responsibility for what happens after certain errors.

Even further, GB pitchers allow more unearned runs because they allow more ground balls. Errors are inevitable. ERA rewards these pitchers for throwing those ground balls (because ground balls don't become HRs and don't often become XBH) but fails to capture the extra runs that flow from the fact of these "extra" ground balls - the inevitable errors.

Another example is knuckleballers, who allow more unearned runs than average because passed balls are "errors" for purposes of unearned runs. These passed balls are a direct result of why knuckleballers do well against hitters and tend to do well in ERA - the ball does weird, unpredictable stuff.

[RedBean]

First, ERA is also misleading because it doesn't reward the strikeout, which is a huge flaw.

Second, Maddux is shaky for the HOF if for nothing else than his K-factor just isn't milestoney.

What's he got like 2,800 K's? CAREER? I think Clemens did that in a 4-game series in 1987 against the Rob Deer/Mickey Tettleton Tigers.

Thirdly, Chicks dig fastballs, longballs, deep passes, dunks and punchouts.

Forget your black ink or gray ink numbers, Madduz has nothing to offer in any of the five key categories that get you laid.

0-for-3, hat trick, sit'em down, somebody get Mr. Maddux an appointment in 2029 with the Veterans Committee.

[TheNoodleMan]

A bunch of people in this thread are a locks the hall of very leveled.