*The Definitive Hourly Rate Thread*

[junglewarfare]

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Explain copout? Why do you play poker? For money? Why not play the most profitable game featuring the least amount of variance?

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Ok, I admit my post was a little hostile, but I worded to make a point.

For some people, multi tabling lower limits is best they can do. If you can keep your head and maintain a healthy attitude over a long period of time playing poker, that is no small feat. I am not knocking them. There is nothing wrong with that, if you have found your maximum earn and it is 100nl or 200nl go do that.

But for a lot of people can do much better than that. They are short changing themselves by getting to a certain place and thinking "ok, now I will just grind out and be happy here." I know what it is like to burn out of things and not reach my potential (poker and otherwise) and it sucks. It's very tough to deal with, 99% of us can't work really hard at something for 6 months straight and be ready to come back hungry for another 6 months. I think this is what happens to a lot of people: they find poker, get into it, work really hard at it for a while, get to a place where they can make a very significant amount of money compared to a real job. Then they get a little worn out from putting so much effort and being obsessed with poker that they shut down the part of their brain that was striving to improve and just start grinding. They are ok with this because they are making by what by their standards is a lot of money. I have done this in poker, I have done this in life. One of the hardest parts of poker (to me) is balancing it with other things in life in a way that A. lets me seperate how I am doing in poker from my general happiness level and B. keeps me motivated to improve at poker. If poker is the only thing in life that you apply yourself to, you are going to get bored with it.

The reason I think it can be a cop-out is because sometimes people get to a place where they think "wow, 400nl looks pretty tough, I am just going to stick with what I am able to beat now." A lot of these players are nitty players who play a very straightforward style. They play a low variance game which is also very exploitable. They aren't good enough players to beat the next limit up where it is harder to get by with mediocre handreading skills and where you can't just wait for donkeys to call off their stacks. They realize this and don't really want to put the effort into becoming a better poker player. I have been at this stage, and it usually comes from being lazy rather than not being smart enough to keep advancing.

Then, and only after this thought, do people start saying "Yeah, I am not going to move up because I can win the same amount at lower limits with less variance." They don't really believe this, they just say it because they aren't good enough to beat the next higher limit and aren't willing to put in the effort to beat it. That is a copout. I am sure people do exactly this because I have done it myself.

For a handful of people, yes, they have found their perfect level. But I hear so many people say this that I know most of them aren't being truthful. In all likelihood if someone says "yeah I am too lazy to improve my game and move up" they are costing themselves money. 2p2 is a poker advice board, and the advice is: Don't get complacent, always try to expand and improve your game. It is possible to be making more money than you are now if you man up, take a few risks and the work in.

Now of course there are people who rely on poker as their only source of income and have bills to pay. There are definitely execptions to the idea of "always move up to the highest bleeding razor limit you can and squeeze out every penny." I am pretty conservative in my bankroll management because I am a student and don't want to let the swings get to a point where I might have to go looking for a real job. But that is different than not trying as hard as I can to improve.

I am rambling by now but I have made my point, and it's pretty hard to argue with. Don't sell yourself short and don't stop working hard. "I play limit x instead of x+1 because I can earn just as much with less variance" is usually just a euphemism for "I suck at poker and an too lazy to work hard at it."

[Triumph36]

This is idealistic - I think all you're showing is the divide between the grinders/pros and people who are playing semi-pro.

Once a pro finds a limit he is comfortable beating, there's no reason for him to move up. There is an adjustment period that comes with learning a new limit - learning new players, new regulars, having to develop a whole new buddy list, etc.

But one of the great things about multi-tabling online poker is that you don't have to play just one limit - it amazes me how few people take advantage of this. My normal limit is 2/4 NL - if I see donkeys at 3/6 or even 5/10 I'm willing to go up there and take a shot. This gives me the ability to play 3-5 tables at my normal limit but still getting some numbers on guys who play at the higher limits. I also tend to concentrate on the higher stakes tables more. I don't see why this is ruled out and I don't see why you have to move up to a limit by bringing all your tables up to that limit all at once. That seems to me to be senseless. And re: confusion about tables - I've played 2500 hands at higher limits while playing 40K at NL 400 and have made the wrong raise twice.

[junglewarfare]

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Once a pro finds a limit he is comfortable beating, there's no reason for him to move up.

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um.... maybe to make more $$$$$$$?

[Equal]

Yeah I agree with Triumph, it's an artificial limitation to only play one certain limit. I know a couple people (me included) that exacerbated their downswings because of a stubborn desire to stay at the limit they were losing at. I play 400, 600 and 1k all daily, and I'm not picky. If I see a good table I sot down.

Of course I have adjusted my bankroll requirements to reflect the fact that I'm am playing 600 and 1k.

[Triumph36]

But 'moving up' right away is almost sure to produce losses or a reduced winrate. Being uncomfortable with the limit + not knowing the regulars means your earn will almost certainly suffer. And as goodguy and DanBright are postulating, some people will be incapable of beating that limit - I find that highly dubious for most of the players on here for any level below 10/20, but what's entirely possible is that someone can earn more money at a lower limit.

[slambert]

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I really wanna know the sample size +who are the people making $200+ an hour at 200NL. I guess its not impossible, just pretty amazing.

5PTBB/100 10 tabling 6 max?

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7.5PTBB/100 6 tabling FR over 125K hands

running good?

[ski]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really wanna know the sample size +who are the people making $200+ an hour at 200NL. I guess its not impossible, just pretty amazing.

5PTBB/100 10 tabling 6 max?

[/ QUOTE ]

7.5PTBB/100 6 tabling FR over 125K hands

running good?

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=2&vc=1

[slambert]

lol - topped off my night

but if u missed it, i did say 125k hands

[Hardgrove]

Ive made $400 an hour in 2006. This has been done at like 20% NL600, 65% NL1k and 15% NL2k.

[EmpireMaker2]

500+ at 5-10