the mmtbone thread - mod discussion

[Ryan Beal]

[ QUOTE ]
Whether we agree that they have a point, and that if they threatened to sue, or sued, anyone should be concerned, is an entirely different matter. (Although threats of legal action usually win even in neutral circumstances, as no one wants to pay legal fees when something isn't very important, in the first place.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

My main issue with all of this is that I don't think any of us want to have to start deleting more and more content just because one person doesn't want some piece of information out there. Obviously if the information is an address, phone number, or something similiar, we're already more than willing to kill the post.

I just don't want the members to start getting silly about this. It would begin to ruin many threads and the overall site.

[Mike Haven]

Yes.

I would refer you back to astroglide's post, where he hit the nail on the head:

Mum's the word.

[JaredL]

So what do we do when we get a pm like this:

I would like to request that all information about how to play AKo be deleted from any and all forums. The spread of such information is potentially harmful to me and hence I'm bothered to see it.

Please comply by deleting such posts so that further (possibly legal) action on my part doesn't need to be taken. Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,

Joe_User37

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just so you guys know what we're dealing with here, these are the quotes that lori freaked out about and declared a "trainwreck":

Yugoslav: What do you think of Lorinda/Lori?

mmbt0ne: Obviously a very good player, but I'm not sure why he plays so low. His style is definitely different than most of the stt forum, but it seems to work pretty well for the games he plays.

seriously. that's it. they were also buried in a thread with over 300 posts, and nobody even commented on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, there is nothing that should be edited in this and 2+2 should not be held hostage by lori. I'd favor an explanation to lori about how she cannot go apeshit whenever she wants, and if necessary a suspension.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me try to explain lori's position a little better... the following quote is in the ToS.

[ QUOTE ]
the privacy rule: don't discuss a person's private life unless you're sure they wouldn't mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Confirming that Lori is male despite the recent STT forum poll which shows that less than half of respondents believe Lorinda is male shows that it's certainly not well known by everybody. Realize that nearly everyone who was selected to be a mod was selected because they've been around awhile and are active, in addition to other factors. So whether WE (taken individually) already knew is a completely separate issue than whether it's general knowledge. Perhaps a poster's gender is not what was meant by the privacy policy, but that was not made clear.

Of course, the above paragraph does not excuse Lorinda's subsequent actions, especially the tone that was used in the PMs to astroglide. I definitely think Lorinda overreacted (greatly), but I also think that there's definitely at least some merit to Lorinda's position, and that's why I'm doing my best to get the whole thing put behind us with as little ill will on both sides as possible. I know there will be some on both sides no matter what I do, but I like to think that the current state of things is a pretty fair compromise, with perhaps the only change should be Lorinda needing to send an apology PM to astroglide for the tone of those PMs?

[Ryan Beal]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me try to explain lori's position a little better... the following quote is in the ToS:


the privacy rule: don't discuss a person's private life unless you're sure they wouldn't mind.

[/ QUOTE ]


Just to make things more clear, this isn't in the T&C. That quote is found in the OOT sticky. I agree with it, and it's definitely the way we want to do things, but it's not in the T&C. That makes a difference when it comes to being sued and such.

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do we do when we get a pm like this:

I would like to request that all information about how to play AKo be deleted from any and all forums. The spread of such information is potentially harmful to me and hence I'm bothered to see it.

Please comply by deleting such posts so that further (possibly legal) action on my part doesn't need to be taken. Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,

Joe_User37

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you are serious that you need some sort of stab at an answer, the first thing any mod should say is:

"Mat, I've received this pm. How do you want to proceed?"

If Mat replies, "I don't know. What do you think on this one?" then any mod that should be a mod will probably say something like, "The man is insane and a troublemaker. Ban him and deal with his lawyer's letter when it arrives."

[Ryan Beal]

I'm pretty sure the point he was trying to make is that what kind of 'information' people can make us remove should probably be a bit more clear if we are indeed talking about removing or editing a user's post(s) at another user's request.

I still don't think we'll be doing that in most cases, though. Not sure at this point. Eventually Mat will probably post some sort of clarification just because at least a few of us are so unsure about this.

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
I still don't think we'll be doing that in most cases, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hope we all agree with this. Deleting posts is the last thing we should be doing, in most cases.

[Jim Kuhn]

[ QUOTE ]

I was staying out of this because I've been on good pm/e-mail terms with lorinda for four or five years, and know bits and pieces about lorinda's real life, although lorinda has always been a very private person both on and off the boards.

If you look at lorinda's posting history, you will see that although people try to hit on lorinda every now and then, lorinda will NEVER respond in a sexual way. The ONLY indication that lorinda is female is the name lorinda, and, of course, the avatar.

Obviously, I know lorinda's real name and sex, but I am not going to state what I know, as this is confidential information given to me because of our friendly relationship.

I have not been in touch with lorinda over this matter, and it does seem like a bit of an over-reaction, to me, and I can't explain why it has become such a big deal to lorinda on this occasion.

I accept fully that if lorinda prefers that everyone thinks lorinda is female, that's lorinda's prerogative in a largely anonymous internet forum.

lorinda is a very intelligent person, and, (although I didn't tell lorinda), it seems to me that somehow lorinda has discovered that if a poster wants something deleted, and it isn't, then Twoplustwo could be sued - hence, the threat of legal action to get the relevant posts deleted, which is probably in reality all lorinda wants.

(Again, in reality, people in the UK don't sue, as a rule - it's a different world over here in that respect - so it is an empty threat, I believe. lorinda's good at running bluffs, don't forget!)

I'd HATE lorinda to be banned. lorinda is a major part of Twoplustwo's history. I can't actually see any reason to ban lorinda, simply because lorinda has reacted angrily to a thread that has really pissed lorinda off, for whatever reason.

I would ask that we delete the "offending" posts, as lorinda requested, and let the water run under the bridge. In fact, lorinda might leave of lorinda's own accord if lorinda falls out with more than a couple of people over this - it's the way lorinda is as a person.

Finally, Lori was created because at one point GrannyMae was on death's door, with 2500 posts to Granny's name. lorinda vowed that lorinda would never post more than 2500 posts, as a sign of respect, and therefore had to start the Lori account. After Granny's heart operation and recovery, lorinda was able to post again. In the early days of the use of the two accounts, I think lorinda was used for poker posts and Lori for chat posts, (or vice versa). I don't know if that is the case now, as lorinda sort of fell out with me when I was made a moderator in "lorinda's" Zoo, and lorinda moved to the strategy forums.

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I pretty much agree with Mike 100% on this. Lori/Lorinda has been a very valuable 2+2 poster for several years. He put in many hours creating the Zoo FAQ and helped out many fellow posters in the 'Old Zoo'. He also played in well over 90% of the King Of The Zoo (KOTZ) tournies. With the poker boom and associated influx of new posters he became more of a lurker in the Zoo.

I think established, valuable posters like this should be provided much more leeway than n00bs. If possible legal action was posted in a thread by Lori then Mat may want to contact him and let him know that this is NOT acceptable. Not an official warning per se, but still let him know that Mat is involved and does not appreciate lawsuit threats. An alternative would be to just hope this blows over.

I have not kept up on these threads as these past two days I have only frequented the Zoo, sporting events and this mod forum. Work and my childrens activities have kept me pretty busy. Hopefully, this will just blow over............

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[Jim Kuhn]

I am not a legal expert but I would think personal information would be the only things that must be deleted/edited upon request. If a user name is anon then it should not matter. I could be a 43 year old guy or an 11 year old girl. On the internet you never know! I could even be both as someone could be hacking my account and posting for me when I'm not around.

I think we should usually edit things out of courtesy within reason. The 'within reason' part is why we are mods. Mat has trusted us to utilize common sense and good judgement to 'do the right things'. JMHO

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]