10K LSAT YO?

[Superfluous Man]

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also, to OP...i would echo what nath said. if you are planning to go to law school simply out of a lack of anything else to do, it may not be the best idea. then again, if it's something you genuinely want to do, something you genuinely think you'll enjoy, then don't let others who are down on it dissuade you. it's still possible to find lawyers who love their jobs.

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There are several (well, at least a few) areas of law that I find interesting. For example, I took a Constitutional Law course at Michigan that I found very engrossing, and a National Security Law course that held my interest somewhat less (though, it was second semester senior year and I was taking it pass/fail, so other things like binge drinking 5 nights a week took precedence).

Generally, the areas of law that interest me most are the ones that would make me the least money. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, given my income from poker. 'duck's post seems to indicate it may be a positive. Btw, I'd actually like to hear more about what that internship entails; I hear so much about 80 hour work weeks/mindless paperwork/being a slave to billable hours/etc. that it might be enlightening to hear about the other side.

Anyway, to a certain extent, you and nath are correct; I still have plenty of thinking to do about whether or not I will actually go to law school. But, since I am already heavily invested in taking the LSAT in June and I am confident that I will improve my score, I may as well just take it and see what happens. After that, I'll have plenty of time to evaluate the circumstances of my life and the state of poker in general, then make a decision about law school.

Let's get this thread back to what BBV really wants. DEGENERACY. Where's that guy who offered to lay 6-1? I have 5k burning a hole in my pocket. Care to make this a 30K LSAT YO?!?!

[FyteOn]

Just saw this thread and not going to delve too far into it. But that's funny because I scored 164 on my first practice test, took a course, then got 176 on the real thing. That was 1995 but I'm sure it's comparable. You should easily add 7-10 points with a course and with practice.

As for law school itself, I would strongly suggest finding a program that has a joint MBA/JD program. You shave a year off the total by doing it in 4 and it opens your world up to a million more opportunities. Don't sweat the extra debt, everyone comes out withe $150-200k in debt - that's why the jobs pay so well.

If you just do law school, and I wish someone told me this when I went to school, the only thing that matters is your first year. That's it. After that, nobody cares. You interview for your job 1st semester of 2nd year and all they do is go off your grades from 1st year and whether or not you're on a journal - which is determined by your 1st year grades. 2nd year is more work, but the grades don't really matter as long as you haven't bombed out. 3rd year is a joke because you're already got your full offer.

As for when you get out, yeah, the first few years suck. But you're getting paid well and the learning curve is straight up. You get your experience and move on. And if you graduate with a joint MBA/JD you can move right into the corporate side where the real dough is. Remember, when you're a lawyer (even on your own) you're max'ed at what you can earn - you're billing by the hour. Now that may be a big number but you still have a max. Get your degree and you'll be amazed at the doors it opens - within and outside of the legal world.

[cmmcnjd]

I disagree re: JD/MBA. Very little to be gained from having both. Certainly not enough to justify another $60k in loans and $150k in opportunity cost. Employers will not view you as more qualified. They'll view you as having an extra degree that they're not particularly interested in.

On the legal side, some firms treat JD/MBAs as second year associates right out of school. But that's about it in terms of enhanced career opportunities. I've seen nothing to suggest that JD/MBAs fair significantly better in the recruiting process. There's very little a B-school grad gains relative even to the practice of corporate law that can't be taught in a week-long training session.

On the business side, with very rare exceptions all they'll care about is your MBA. I think we can all agree that law school teaches you nothing with any practical value. So why would a JD mean anything to an organization outside the legal world?

If you want to go into business, get an MBA.

If you want to practice law, get a JD.

If you want to practice law and then go into business, at the end of the day it won't be your MBA that matters in determining whether you get the job.

If you don't know what you want to do, don't drop an extra $210,000-$420,000 in costs and 1 to 2 years of your life just so you can keep being wishy-washy about your career ambitions.

[TheWorstPlayer]

strongly agree jd/mba is worthless. i work at a consulting firm that even thinks an mba is worthless! obviously we wouldnt care at all about the fact that you had a jd to go with it. and i interviewed with a guy who had a joint degree and worked at an investment bank. he said it was terrible because all the lawyers saw him as a banker and all the bankers so him as a lawyer. he said he'd rather have neither than both.

[retep]

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This is largely correct, IMO. Many of the logic games essentially reduce to a coinflip between the two best choices,



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This is incorrect. If anything Logical Reasoning can be reduced to 2 best answer choices, but in the games section there is always 1 and only 1 clear cut answer.

[teddyFBI]

i also got 164 on my first Kaplan course diagnostic. Got 173 on real thing. 3.7 GPA from ivy league undergrad. Dinged at H/Y/S law schools, but scholarship offers everywhere else. Give yourself over to the Kaplan/Princ. Review methods...i was stubborn at first b/c i always rocked standardized tests, but after really committing myself to the kaplan methods, i felt very comfortable taking them.

Lots of good info in this thread from those who have actually gone to law school -- a lot of drivel from those who haven't and have no idea what they're talking about.

u can read all my poker+law school experiences in my blog.

[BarryLyndon]

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I can second that. [censored] thing is you have one exam whole semester, that you don't get back so you never know what a prof wants. You know some want useless boring details while others mark you off for that. [censored] is not interesting either, maybe because finished first year just now, god is that [censored] boring.

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Well, since there's only one exam per semester, I've come up with a foolproof plan:

1) Score really high on LSATs.
2) Get scholarship to UCLA or USC (lol?)
3) Play soft commerce games 3 months per semester.
4) Study for exams 2 weeks per semester.
5) Skate by with straight C's.

Or, I could do none of the above and actually work in law school, as I hold out hope that I'll find some of the courses interesting.

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[censored] that [censored] !,

If that's the reason to go to law school, you are really wasting three yearas of your life. You don't want to go to law school so you can get "C"s and find interesting courses. First of all, even the most interesting sounding courses are mostly cursory overviews of case law assignments amongst 15 people who are trying to find ways to get "A"s and get jobs, not make interesting comments. Secondly, even if you are just chilling and playing at the commerce for three months a year, you still have to deal with final exams lurking over your head. Either your law grades will suffer with this approach, your poker game, or both. Trying to find medium ground between two intense professional forums (poker and law), while at the same dealing with the nuances of ass kissing that goes on in the legal community, is a little much. You may want to re-think things.

Yes, you can study for those exams using outlines that other people wrote, but why deal with the stress when you could find a job now that you like + play poker? If the answer is "Well, I WANT to be a lawyer," then you better be damn well sure about it, because once you get into law school, I promise that your life will change.

In all honesty, I see juniors and seniors in colllege who are extremely smart decide that law school must be for them? Why not - there is prestige, three more years of education, and solid realization of your intellect. However, believe me, after first year is over and you are wondering what the [censored] just happened and why does everyone around you seem like a vapid, zero-sum game SOB while still smiling and licking ass (contrast to poker players, who are zero-sum, but admit to it), it really all becomes about $$.

If I were you, take the LSAT, because it presents so many shiny things like phone calls from top school deans who want your fat 170 mind and girls saying "oh, wow, you made ______." Then, take a year off, play poker full-time, look at other jobs you may like. No law school is going to pass up on your 170+ LSAT score, even if your grades suck; just make sure you know what you are getting into first.

Edit: After graduating from law school, I did private for a while, then transferred to public interest, my loans not nearly complete. I'm content at public interest - I have time to pursue other interests after 5, keep close to friends and family, gym, etc. But, in retrospect, I'd rather be writing full-time, which I could have done if I took a lot of time to think about it post graduation. The law demands an acute interest, and if you don't have it, it's a hell of an investment to waste.

Barry

[wstaffor]

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If I were you, take the LSAT, because it presents so many shiny things like phone calls from top school deans who want your fat 170 mind and girls saying "oh, wow, you made ______." Then, take a year off, play poker full-time, look at other jobs you may like. No law school is going to pass up on your 170+ LSAT score, even if your grades suck; just make sure you know what you are getting into first.

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I agree with most of what you're saying, but a 170 doesn't guarantee anything at the top schools.

To add my own 2 cents, it should be fairly easy to go from 164 to over 170. My first practice test cold was a 164 also. I scored a 174 on the real thing, which was significantly below my average practice test score (my last 5 practice tests were 180 179 180 180 180). I actually teach the LSAT for Powerscore now, so if you want to have a degenerate gambler as your LSAT instructor take the PS weekend class in Philly in mid August.

Law school sucks, but it's not as hard as people say. I did almost no work this year, have grades right at the median, and will have the job of my choice just because of where I go to school.

The moral of the story: Pwn the LSAT and go to the absolute best school you can get into. Then you can [censored] around and still get paid like a God.

[AnthonyV]

if OP got a 164 on his first practice test cold, he's in great shape. if you take a TON of practice tests (classes are worthless for 167ish+ range imo. they are great, however, for moving from low to medium), you will get a 170 almost certainly.

[XXXNoahXXX]

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If you just do law school, and I wish someone told me this when I went to school, the only thing that matters is your first year. That's it. After that, nobody cares.

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QFT.

Think about it. You start applying for second summer jobs after first summer and with only 1st yr grades. you get offer, then work at some firm second summer. At the end of that summer you get a job offer. Obviously that doesn't happen for everyone, but still you can get a big firm job based just on first year grades.

I have even talked to hiring partners that said they look at classes taken, but not grades for 2L and 3L because the freedom people have to pick classes and the different size classes and therefore different curves makes it near impossible to compare one student to another, even from the same school.

So bust your ass 1L.


I just finished 1L and of course didn't really heed this advice, as I kind of coasted more than I should have. As long as you keep up with the reading somewhat, start outlining early, and focus during the days and weeks leading up to finals, you'll be fine.

There's plenty of shortcuts too, like getting outlines for upperclassmen and online. What is the point of starting a 50 page outline from scratch when you can get one from someone who took the same class, same text, same professor, and got an A on the exam? Sure putting it together is a learning experience, but if you don't have the time this is always there. Ditto for hornbooks, treatises, canned briefs, etc.

I have found that the two types of people that succeed in law school are those that put in ungodly hours each week and those that find the most efficient way to study. Notice I didn't include "the smartest" in there.

Some people might feel odd tossing the casebook aside, ignoring the professor's reading assignments and instead reading some hornbooks and commercial outlines, but you'll learn the same material and be better prepared for the tests.