Some Stuff About PUA (very long)

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

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Partial answer - because they're stupid / weak / [censored] up. Additional partial answer - because that dude's doing a lot of things right. The task is to separate out what's morally heinous from what isn't.

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Has it ever occured to you these women react very strong to their most basic instincts when falling for a guy like that?
So, the product of gazillions of years of evolution. Yet you argue with what is an obvious fact? It is easy to say their stupid and weak. If you stick to this explanation, and be done with it (stick to what you have learned until now), you will never ever grasp what is really going on there.

Learn how life really works, as opposed to what society teaches you as being the norm. Use your brain, read, learn, think. You should really try it, might be good for your personal growth.

Crazy as it may sound to you, but one of the main reasons I started studying this stuff is exactly because I do NOT want to be a d*ck to women, abusing them physically and so on. It is so not me. Yet I did want respect. And I have it now. Thanks to what I learned.

I repeat, if you do not fully understand what it is all about, why go out of your way to judge it?

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i think it has less to do with evolution and a lot more to do with last weeks episode of sex and the city and last months issue of Seventeen.

[kkcountry]

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PUA can help you keep a girl interested

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(this isn't directed at just you Traz, you happened to write it though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) Lines like this is what I don't understand about the PUA pov. If a girl's not interested in me, since we, as flawed human beings, tend to hold onto or first impressions, how is using something from the PUA toolbox going to change her mind in a positive manner long term? Doesn't she have a right (for a lack of a better term) to not be interested? Maybe this is a problem I need to deal with about myself, but I cannot be interested in somebody who isn't genuinely interested in me as well.

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There are things men can do which cause interest/attraction to drop. There are things men can do which cause interest/attraction to increase.

PUA stuff can help you do the things which cause interest/attraction to increase, and to avoid doing things which cause interest/attraction to drop.

This isn't tricking a girl into staying with you, or any silly notion like that. It's simply being a person that she will want to be with for a long period of time. PUA can help you become that person.

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Thank you for clearing that up, I've learned a lot in this thread, specifically that it's not all parlor tricks used to get women to have an (incorrectly, as you're still the same horrible person on the inside) favorable view of you long enough to get laid. Efforts one makes to make himself a better person are quite admirable and have no reason to be looked down upon, whether it's for internal reasons or to be more attractive to other people.

[Anacardo]

This is probably a lost cause thanks to the awfulness of the OP, but I wonder if by heroic effort this thread can somehow be turned to the conversation I wanted to have, i.e. pragmatism vs. idealism and their interactions with each other, as applied to PUA, and not the conversation we're doomed to have, i.e., Cardo and Cardo [censored].

[traz]

Honestly cardo, no matter how many times you repeat the direction you want this thread to head in, I just don't have a clue.

Can you get into more specifics regarding wtf is on your mind? I feel lost in your sea of thoughts

[Dids]

Isn't a huge portion of the PUA stuff just a way to build confidence in a guy, which 1- girls like 2- makes it easy to get shot down hella times and keep going?

I'm sure there's all kinds of other more valuable meta stuff there, but that one bit strikes me as a huge step in terms of interacting with girls.

If you look at it like this, all of the weird predatory apsects seem meaningless.

Also totally agree with KKF that Cardo has a horrible working assumption that these girls are somehow innocent bystanders.

[n.s.]

I'm mostly in the anti-PUA camp, although I'll admit I'm certainly no expert on it. The parts that deal with building self-confidence seems good and legit - no one can really argue with that. That said, here are the things that bug me about PUA:

-Everyone who spouts the philosophy seems to be convinced that all girls are basically the same deep-down, at least when it comes to what they are attracted to (see Vehn's "Women like men." comment). I simply don't believe this - woman are more than just a bundle of instinctual desires and some of them want different things. All it takes is one case to disprove the idea that they are all the same, and I can say for certain (or as certain as I can be) that I've met more than one woman who simple doesn't fit the PUA mold. Even if it's not truly misogynistic, the PUA doctrines never really seem to acknowledge that women are actually fully-functioning humans.

-A good deal of the adamant PUA supporters seem to carry really obvious scars from being rejected by woman in the past (before their conversion), and it obviously colors their outlook towards women. With all of the PUA tricks and techniques that get posted all the time, I never hear about any of them that are designed to actually make the girl happier - they all seem to be about asserting control and knocking down their self-esteem. While I don't doubt the effectiveness of that approach, I see no reason while being confident and in control would preclude actually being nice to someone. Surely a true PU professional would use all available tricks, but the trend towards demeaning chicks makes me think that a lot of PUA let their resentment get in the way of their artistry.

-For some reason PUA guy always seem to show up on unrelated message boards and spew forth a bunch of acronyms and esoteric terms to an audience that obviously doesn't understand what they are saying, without any explanation. It always strikes me as a lame attempt to get people to ask them about it.

[Alamo]

3 books:

The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, to get an idea of why things work the way they work. Tough concepts explained in a very accessible way.

On Being A Man by David Deida, making you realize you suck at being a man. Apply the lessons here and be amazed by the changes in how people perceive you.

The Art Of Seduction by Robert Greene, to be able to become this man all these chicks read about in their 1 dollar paperback novels.

All 3 are gems.

[JuntMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
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Partial answer - because they're stupid / weak / [censored] up. Additional partial answer - because that dude's doing a lot of things right. The task is to separate out what's morally heinous from what isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Has it ever occured to you these women react very strong to their most basic instincts when falling for a guy like that?
So, the product of gazillions of years of evolution. Yet you argue with what is an obvious fact? It is easy to say their stupid and weak. If you stick to this explanation, and be done with it (stick to what you have learned until now), you will never ever grasp what is really going on there.

Learn how life really works, as opposed to what society teaches you as being the norm. Use your brain, read, learn, think. You should really try it, might be good for your personal growth.

Crazy as it may sound to you, but one of the main reasons I started studying this stuff is exactly because I do NOT want to be a d*ck to women, abusing them physically and so on. It is so not me. Yet I did want respect. And I have it now. Thanks to what I learned.

I repeat, if you do not fully understand what it is all about, why go out of your way to judge it?

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i think it has less to do with evolution and a lot more to do with last weeks episode of sex and the city and last months issue of Seventeen.

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I think last week's episode of Sex and the City and last month's issue of Seventeen, since they're dealing largely with female psychology, are just a reflection of the way women's brains have evolved over the past hundreds of thousands of years.

According to "The Game", there are several books on the reading lists of PUAs that involve evolution and behavioral psychology.

[bisonbison]

95% of the people have no idea what PUA is or what it's about, and that includes most of the people on this forum.

Well, ok. But that's what these PUA sux/rox arguments are always about: banging hot chicks you barely know.

If I start a thread to talk about girl X and her possible expectations and responses for approach Y in situation Z, that's not a PUA thread, even though the PUA guys will obviously have their take on it, and that take may be really observant and well informed.

The good stuff you're associating with PUA is not exclusive to PUA. Clearly the meathead PU by numbers mysogyny isn't exclusive to PUA either, but it's tha public face of this stuff.

[Triumph36]

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This is probably a lost cause thanks to the awfulness of the OP, but I wonder if by heroic effort this thread can somehow be turned to the conversation I wanted to have, i.e. pragmatism vs. idealism and their interactions with each other, as applied to PUA, and not the conversation we're doomed to have, i.e., Cardo and Cardo [censored].

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cardo i like you but this makes no goddamn sense.

i have no idea how pragmatism or idealism apply here. unless you're saying that an idealist hopes that some chick notices how good he is at fencing and they develop a rapport and eventually start [censored], whereas a pragmatist is ensuring he establishes kino within two minutes on all the bar chicks he's relentlessly hitting on.