Do you support Israel?

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
That isn't 100% true, ahnuld. But it doesn't matter, there is no freaking way that the right of return can be given. No way. That means the distruction of Israel as a jewish state.

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It wasn't a question of a full right of return. It was a question f a symbolic compromised on the issue that would have seen a small number of people return that wouldn't have had a significant demographic effect on Israel. Israel refused any kind of compromise on the issue however purely symbolic. (Israeli negotiators at Taba were apparently willing to offer some symbolic compromise but the rug was pulled out from under them). It's by far the most emotive issue for Palestinians and there's no way a 100% capitulation on the issue would have gone through even if Arafat had agreed to it.

[Yuv]

Keep in mind that this is a very emotive issue for Israelis as well. Giving money away to that cause means an admission that we did wrong by defending ourselves in 1948. This isn't something Israel should or willing to admit.

The major issue about Oslo was a willingness in Israel to reach peace and support a Palestinian nation side-by-side with Israel. Obviously this wasn't something agreed upon by the entire Israeli population (i.e., the sad sad events that ended with the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin), but the general feeling in Israel was that we are gearing up towards peace (keep in mind Rabin was shot during a huge peace rally, under the title "Yes for peace, no for violence". Irony).

[Fly]

Rabin got elected on a platform which opposed negotiations with the PLO. He is a traitor who did more damage to Israel then Arafat could have ever dreamed of. While assassination of politicans has no place whatsoever in a democracy, I must admit I'm quite glad he's dead.

[Yuv]

That is utter [censored]. Rabin was elected on a platform which opposed negotiations with Syria over the Golan Heights.

Shamir's likud governemnt had already talked to PLO in Madrid two years earlier.

[nicky g]

This is sliding way off topic, but expelling 700,000 people from their homes goes a very long way beyond self-defence. I suspect you are right that the reason Barak wouldn't agree to a symbolic gesture is a worry that this would be seen as an admission of past guilt. But it doesn't change the fact that agreement is impossible without compromise on this issue.

[ahnuld]

I may very well be wrong, but I do have an open mind. Please show me some UNBIASED links that explain how the palestinians were expelled. Im not trying to be condesending in any way, id just like to see it.

[mik37]

I whole heartedly support Israel.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471679...3260122?ie=UTF8

Arguments over.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
I may very well be wrong, but I do have an open mind. Please show me some UNBIASED links that explain how the palestinians were expelled. Im not trying to be condesending in any way, id just like to see it.

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Try reading some serious history books. By far the most in-depth examination is by Benny Morris, an Israeli Historian: The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem. His conclusion is about half fled the fighting and were barred from returning and about half were forcibly expelled later on.

[ahnuld]

you mean you cant find anything online? Like any opinion papers from respected college profs.?

[Yuv]

As sad as it is, the price of expelling 700,000 palestinian is a small one, when you are attacked by every force in the region. This was Israel independence war. A defeat would have ended in me not typing this. Maybe a good thing in the views of some of you, but that seems like a different issue.

The right of return is symbolic issue to both sides. Arafat deprives his people of independence due to a symbolic issue. Great leader.