Tone and Flaming in SSNL: PLEASE READ

[Dan Bitel]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post8860110

[MyTurn2Raise]

I don't want to lose the cheese thread...I love the cheese thread for building community



one possible suggestion: when I go back into the early archives, posters addressed each other by name and signed off quite frequently

For example,


AJ,
I agree that the flaming is unacceptable. However, I really love the cheese thread and find it a good part of building the SSNL community. I hope there is another way to cut out the BBV attitude without losing what has been a good monthly thread.

MT2R




I even experimented with doing it for a few days in my posts. What it does is bring home that a poster is replying to another human being and that the conventions of talking with other humans should be followed.



I suppose some of this flaming became inevitable with the amount of young players kicking azz in poker. I hope this place doesn't become like pocket 5s, but whatever.

[amoeba]

I really hope you guys read the OP more and ask for more info before giving advice.

Some of the advice seem like there is explanation for it but there really isn't.

For example, I often encounter the phrase "I raise because calling is too weak."

What does that even mean? does it mean you are trying to get value? you are trying to find out where you are? for more fold equity?

oftentimes I find that what you really mean is to say "its standard to raise overpair on the flop and thus calling is incorrect."

The other one that irks me is when advice is given without looking at stack size. I realize that we often post fast and sometimes we miss little details. If somebody points it out though, its ok to come back and edit it and admit your mistake. No Biggie.

Lastly, there should be no ego about posting good advice. If a OP played well in your opinion but didn't get the results , tell him he played well. Give your advice with concise reasoning and thats the best you can do. If somebody comes up with something better and you are convinced, don't hesitate in saying so. If you are convinced your line is correct but somebody else won't be convinced, at some point say "this is all my evidence, I can't really argue anymore", instead of starting in on personal attacks.

[yundmi]

Personally, I love the cheese thread. I love it so much that I sacrifice much of my time and EV looking at it when I should be studying schoolwork/studying poker. I would be extremely sad if the cheese thread was gone (even though I know it's not going to go because tufat and the rest of us asians will pokerstalk AJ until he goes broke), but it'd actually be extremely ++++EV for me and the rest of the forum if it was gone.

And to address the level of maturity and civility in this forum:

I was a pretty hardcore CS player (active in competitive leagues such as CAL and UGS back in their prime), and I would always be browsing the GotFrag forums, with GotFrag being analogous to 2p2, except for competitive gaming. So anyway, those forums were EXTREMELY immature, with NONSTOP flaming, so when I started being more active in the SSNL forums on 2p2, I was blown away by the level of civility I discovered here. Although there may have been a plague of immature posts recently, SSNL in general is still highly intellectual and beneficial to anyone that reads and/or posts.

With that being said, obviously everyone should be CIVIL people and try not to flame and make people feel bad, but people will be people and some people just aren't mature people. To those who get offended easily, just ignore it and appreciate all the free and beneficial advice you do receive. The mods will do their best to get rid of offensive posts, and I think they have done a great job.

I think a lot of the immaturity that SSNL contains stems directly from BBV, which is why it's great that we have BBV, a place where people can just oust all their immaturity in one place. It's just bad when that stuff carries over to strat forums.

[morphball]

How about this as a proposal. We act nice to people here, but be total trolls on other forums. That should actually be good for 2+2, what do guys think?

[goofyballer]

[ QUOTE ]
dude, post count/reg dates don't matter! you think you're a better person/poster because of those things? come on. But with my comment I wasn't trying to stir up comflict NOR do i think it's ok to act like that online, I'm just saying that lots of things said in jest get misunderstood and people take criticism really tough online for a variety of different reasons. chill out.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and yet you made that comment to me in the cheese thread a day or two ago when I have no idea who you are and I'm pretty sure I've never said a word to you. Hmmmmm.

[Dan Bitel]

GUYS PLEASE CALM DOWN.....I DONT WANT TO LOSE THE CHEESE THREAD! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[ama0330]

I think that true is often misinterpreted and I think what you saw in the true vs limon/matt thread was more passion for poker than desire to hurt someones feelings.

I speak with the privilege of having met true in the real world and I can say that I do not at all believe that he is the kind of person to go waving his ego around for the sake of it. What I CAN say is that he has an unbelievable drive and enthusiasm when it comes to poker theory, evidenced to my mind by the IM discussions I have had with him about my paltry 25nl misdemeanours which he treats as if they were 5knl hands in terms of the time he takes to explain them to me and the detail he goes into.

It may simply be a product of true's character that when he sees something which he knows to be fundamentally incorrect he recoils against it, but note that in every post he made in that thread he spoke theory. Towards the end of the thread there was some really excellent discussion going on and reading that thread has been turning my brain over since.

Ok so this may sound like a brown-nose true ftw thread and if you think I'm just being a fanboy I dont really care tbh, but I really wanted to ensure that everyone understood the difference between what occurred that thread and "ZOMG U SUK LOGOUT PREFLOP HU 4 ROLLZ!!!1!" which is another matter entirely and should be dealt with separately.

[yundmi]

i agree wholeheartedly with ama0330 and i'm probably a true fanboy because his advice is always sound

[Keyser.]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I just went and searched for threads started between 50 and 51 weeks ago and randomly picked one started by aj just because I figured it would have a lot of replies. Check it out:

It's my first hand at the table and...

Some of you guys that are newer around here may be completely floored by something you'll notice in that thread - people can disagree with each other and be perfectly civil about it! We're all here to get better at poker, and achieving that goal is a lot easier if we can focus on that rather than proving whose dick is bigger than everyone else's. A lot of you guys that are propogating this kind of attitude really need to shut the [censored] up and learn how to get along.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish someone would've flamed me b/c gawd I think my advice in there was awful.