An Unprecedented Time: Teenagers and Poker

[mustmuck]

[ QUOTE ]
6ptbb/100 at 6-max $25NL = $3 * ~75hands/hr =$2.25/hr/table *8 tables = $18/hr. $18 * 14=$252/day * 360 days = ~$91k. I assume rakeback would put them over 100k but I don't feel like calculating that right now. If they can play 10 tables, get more hands per hour, or beat $50NL for anything more than 3bb/100, they can make over $100k from play alone. Obviously this would be insane and very difficult for anyone without a gun to their head to accomplish, but it is possible.

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I've been laughing for the past 10 minutes at the thought of somebody grinding 8 tables of 25NL for 14 hours a day ... for 360 days of the year.

[Maulik]

Poker as a hobby or job is great. Some like to play the guitar, play bridge, ride motorcycles, shoot pictures, etc.

The difference between a lot of the aforementioned hobbies, you don't see kids dropping out of college to pursue these ideas.

To what aejones said, making $250k, or more as 5/10 or $10/20 nl players make, that's great. In reality if you make $100k, have no deadlines and bosses to work for, and graduated college, happiness is the pursuit. If you don't get the degree, you'll likely experience "sheepskin effects."

If you're like ahnuld, cts, yvesaint/stan ivey, or any of the strong players playing and going to college it's an excellent hobby. Take time off for a semester, go do whatever the [censored] your heart desires.

I'm glad something I enjoy doing allows me to make some decent coin and travel. Whats great about this community, is the hospitality of nearly all the 2p2 I've encountered.

[JereLock]

good post maulik

could you describe sheepskin effects?

[basementproject]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker as a hobby or job is great. Some like to play the guitar, play bridge, ride motorcycles, shoot pictures, etc.

The difference between a lot of the aforementioned hobbies, you don't see kids dropping out of college to pursue these ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 20 years old. I've seen more kids drop out of college to play 2 nights a week in their bands than I'd care to admit. The majority of my highschool friends didn't even bother with college- their hobbies were drinking and smoking weed, and they work fast food to support those hobbies. I have one friend who dropped out of high school to work in a tire shop- he really loved cars.

Any hobby with an implied possible stream of income/benefit is equally as liable as poker to cause kids to drop out. When I was living in the dorms, I had a crew of about 5 guys that played a home game every week, and we all played nightly online. Two of us made enough cash to get by in school without loans or jobs, an the other three realized they needed to stay in school because they really weren't great at poker.

I don't think the delusions of striking it huge and dropping school are really as big as we're making it seem here- and to the few who have done that, the ones I know/have heard about at least, seem to have been warranted in doing so. If I was ever pulling in 100k+ a year playing online, you bet I'd put college on hold. School would literally be a barrier to poker at that point.

The school will always be there- once you've been admitted, started your degree, it's almost a sure thing you can go back whenever you feel like it to finish. Online poker on the other hand, might not be. Might as well milk it if you can and while you can.

[Maulik]

Sheepskin effects study returns associated with a education. What studies find, number of years of education is positively correlated with income, however, years required to earn diplomas for high school, undergraduate, masters, and phd degrees are not more valuable if one required additional years to complete what could be done in four years. Additional wages were not earned for 'extra schooling.'

[Indiana]

Allow me to spew my 2 cents about poker and college kids, in relation to the discussion in this thread. One MAJOR problem that I see with kids dropping out of school is that these kids aren't making what i'd consider good money (a lot of them are grinding for 35K/yr). As a 31 yr-old guy, I can tell you that you will change physically and mentally over time, and you will not be able to maintain your poker salary over the long-run.....Sure, Doyle can do it, but he's a freak of nature.

On the other hand, in american companies, the old guys get the easy jobs and basically reap semi-passive income as they get older for their yrs of service to the company. There's a reason that all the young guys do the work, and all the older guys sit back in american companies.....its because the old guys cannot keep up so they must do management jobs.

My question is, how are these young poker players gonna deal with making $$ when they get into their 40s? Poker isn't a passive income kind of game and that is the #1 reason that I play part-time, rather than full-time.

Indy

[Maulik]

bsj,

For the purposes of discussion, why should we compare a good poker player to a burnout or a band member who is dropping of college? The IQ of those dropping out of college to pursue a band, work in a tyre shop, or chill is low.

The decision to pursue poker for sole income prior to attending college or abandoning college is supposedly calculated. There are reasons, teenagers are not allowed to drive until sixteen, sign contracts until eighteen, buy cigarettes and rent cars until predetermined discrete ages. The brain is still developing resulting in children being reckless and short-sighted with their decisions.

Additionally, activity of 2p2 posters who dropped out of college and maintain accounts is skewed. The demographic would not contain posters who have abandoned poker as a source of income.

[basementproject]

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The IQ of those dropping out of college to pursue a band, work in a tyre shop, or chill is low.

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This is completely unfounded. I went through the gifted program from grade 5-12. The school board analyzes kids in grade 4 with respect to IQ and intelligence, and the program is composed of the top 2% of the test takers. 3 of my buds from this program dropped out of college to pursue bands. One plays in a cover band every tuesday and thursday night, one plays in a death metal group that barely gigs, and the other is actually doing pretty well touring North America with his rock band. My point is, these are smart dudes, and they're doing what they do. Doesn't make them any less 'gifted' than they really are. Which leads quite nicely into your next point...

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The brain is still developing resulting in children being reckless and short-sighted with their decisions.

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Agreed. But kids who have the talent still should not pass up the opportunity. The real problem is the big-earners spending all their money on hookers and blow, or Grillz, or whatever they buy with their cash. This money could be invested in a house, rental property, fixed income investments or stocks. The real problem isn't that these kids drop school to make the money, it's what they do with it once they get it.

We shouldn't prevent kids with talent from exercising it, especially when they can profit from it. Instead, maybe we should provide a bit of guidance and give them financial/career advice.

A main problem here is probably the school system in itself- kids are taught that they go through school, get jobs, and die. Therefore, the college kid who makes cash playing poker's mindset is- 'hey, I've got a job right here, in online poker! I can skip college.' And that's as far as the thought train goes. No thought about what will happen after poker dries up, or anything long-term, because they've got their cash cow and that's that.

Kids need to realize that there are more career options than just doctor and accountant- tons of people make a bit of cash while young, and start up a business, or invest. A lot of them never have to get a job other than the one they created for themselves with their initial investment. If poker winnings are used wisely, the whole circle of ruin can be totally avoided.

[ZeeJustin]

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If you are good enough to beat 5-10 and 10-20 online, you are going to be able to make a quarter of a million dollars a year for the rest of your life if you put the effort into it

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If you are talking about NL, then you are only talking about a very small percent of self proclaimed professional poker players. Hell, most of the top ranked pocket 5's guys can't even beat a 5/10 NL game online.

If you are talking about limit, then what you are saying only applies to those that can play a TON of tables. Limit online has also declined a lot in popularity post-party from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong).

[Maulik]

"A lot of them never have to get a job other than the one they created for themselves with their initial investment. If poker winnings are used wisely, the whole circle of ruin can be totally avoided."
In theory, I don't disagree, if the money is invested well, they can't live to do as they please.

This, "The real problem is the big-earners spending all their money on hookers and blow, or Grillz, or whatever they buy with their cash. This money could be invested in a house, rental property, fixed income investments or stocks. The real problem isn't that these kids drop school to make the money, it's what they do with it once they get it."

is in agreement with my previous point that they are young, immature and generally incapble of making decisions regarding their longterm financial well-being by making a decision to be a professional poker player at a young age.