STTF SNG->cash thread

[microbet]

suzzer,

How many tables are you playing? Are you using HUD? It's pretty rare when most of the players are fairly normal 30/18ish. If that were the case you should have found different tables.

#1

There are a few reasons to fold preflop. Button is short stacked and you don't close the betting here and you are OOP. I would probably fold pre, but it doesn't seem like calling is terrible.

Turn is very awkward. With his stack size you absolutely have to call if he pushes the turn and it's a really bad spot if he pushes a blank river after calling your turn bet.

Any bet by you is committing. You will never fold out a better hand. If he's behind he's most likely drawing to 6 outs so only 12% chance to hit river. If you hit your river card it's not unlikely that he'll still pay you off with any one pair hand (I know you said they looked normalish, but he is a short stacker who made a weird raise pre.) His slowplaying a big hand is far from out of the question.

I dunno, but it seems like this adds up to a turn check, even though you could end up with a hard decision if/when he bets the turn.

#2

Ok, Daniel Negreanu. I fold preflop almost all the time and 3 bet the times I don't.

Fold turn. It's not close.

It's ok to get loose passive around laggy morons and take their money when you hit something. You just have to be willing to let go of a fair amount of small pots where took a shot.

#3

Calling on the button there doesn't seem horrible, but it's not great. There's still potential for further action and it's not like you are guaranteed huge pot odds since you might end up with just the CO in the pot.

Reraising preflop is fine, but it's part of overall strategy and not something that is necessarily right or wrong for this hand. Well, maybe some people can 3bet it every single time, but they are playing a very different game than I do.

On the flop he's c-raising 2 people on the driest of flops. Find the fold button.


#4

I wish you had some stats on these players. In a vacuum I really don't know. I probably call the flop and make my decision on the turn possibly kicking myself over what hits on the turn.


#5

Fold.

[microbet]

Anyone have any thoughts about my comments on the turn play for suzzer's #1 hand?

I'm not that sure about what is correct there and maybe there's not a huge difference between checking and betting there, but I feel like if I were a little better at poker I would know 100% which play was correct.

[terrellk11]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have any thoughts about my comments on the turn play for suzzer's #1 hand?

I'm not that sure about what is correct there and maybe there's not a huge difference between checking and betting there, but I feel like if I were a little better at poker I would know 100% which play was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, you're too good a player to think there's a 100% correct answer here.

Second, you're dead on that he should have folded preflop.

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have any thoughts about my comments on the turn play for suzzer's #1 hand?

I'm not that sure about what is correct there and maybe there's not a huge difference between checking and betting there, but I feel like if I were a little better at poker I would know 100% which play was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding pf is a standard play without being semi deep, or without a read, so I agree with that. Villain is 50bb deep or so, so that makes it even more of a fold pf.

Readless, I'm not putting anything else in the pot w/o improving as I said in my original post on this hand. Looking at the turn, I think you're correct in your instinct to check. As you stay, any bet puts you in a tough spot. The other thing to consider with the hand particularly on the turn is the less than ideal showdown value of 77. It isn't horrible, but it isn't ideal either. Holding even 88 or 99 in that situation changes things a lot - regarding calling a river bet (if we check the turn and depending on the river card).

Finally, our equity isn't great, (assuming villain plays relatively normal) we only beat AK or AJs or something like that. Hands we don't beat don't come close to adding up to hands we beat.

Hows that?

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have any thoughts about my comments on the turn play for suzzer's #1 hand?

I'm not that sure about what is correct there and maybe there's not a huge difference between checking and betting there, but I feel like if I were a little better at poker I would know 100% which play was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding pf is a standard play without being semi deep, or without a read, so I agree with that. Villain is 50bb deep or so, so that makes it even more of a fold pf.

Readless, I'm not putting anything else in the pot w/o improving as I said in my original post on this hand. Looking at the turn, I think you're correct in your instinct to check. As you stay, any bet puts you in a tough spot. The other thing to consider with the hand particularly on the turn is the less than ideal showdown value of 77. It isn't horrible, but it isn't ideal either. Holding even 88 or 99 in that situation changes things a lot - regarding calling a river bet (if we check the turn and depending on the river card).

Finally, our equity isn't great, (assuming villain plays relatively normal) we only beat AK or AJs or something like that. Hands we don't beat don't come close to adding up to hands we beat.

Hows that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thx. I think he's betting his hands that are ahead of us a lot on the flop - even 88-JJ. I think we are ahead more often than not, but the problem is if we bet and get called I think we are probably behind a lot and if we bet and he pushes we are way behind, but still have to call.

You have to occasionally take away pots where you started out set mining. With bigger stacks there are some added benifits to leading the turn. You have much more FE. If you do get called and hit you have built a bigger pot. And you aren't committing to the pot.

[Pudge714]

I didn't see villain was 50bbs deep.
Fold preflop for sure.
Turn is really close. I want to think about it more.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have any thoughts about my comments on the turn play for suzzer's #1 hand?

I'm not that sure about what is correct there and maybe there's not a huge difference between checking and betting there, but I feel like if I were a little better at poker I would know 100% which play was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think c/c is the best line on the turn. As you said, betting never folds a better hand and getting raised really sucks. I don't feel bad calling at all because we have outs to improve when behind and I feel we can comfortable c/f river if he bets and we don't improve. c/c gives him a chance to take a shot with his AK or whatever crap he's minnish 3betting pf.

And yah, please fold pf next time.

[wuwei]

Suzzer,

2. Fold pf. Flop is fine, turn is an easy fold. Easy...

3. I agree with Blackize on the preflop stuff. Call or 3bet. I don't mind calling at all, and like 3betting guys who iso limpers with a wide range. Postflop, yah, call the first and fold the 2nd time.

4. I like Pudge's response here.

5. Wow, why would you want to get involved against an UTG raiser with all those people left to act?

[bones]

Suzzer,

Find the fold button.

Also, here are 3 really hard things to do in NLHE:

-Playing OOP
-Playing multiple streets with marginal hands
-Playing without the betting impetus

You're calling in spots that guarantee you'll be combining all 3 of those things. This is probably why your coach wants you to stop calling.

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]
suzzer,

How many tables are you playing? Are you using HUD? It's pretty rare when most of the players are fairly normal 30/18ish. If that were the case you should have found different tables.


[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest there were a few reads, but nothing drastic. Unlike other sessions I've played where there were some 80/40 guys or 60/3 guys. Definitely the tables weren't that good. Most players were playing ABC Tag-ish from what I could tell. Which you would think is weird for $100NL at 3am. I was selecting for highest Plrs/Flp %, and still looking for a nice Avg pot. Is that what you guys do?