New Fight Question

[Jordan]

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I think I have the answer.

What if we had two identical twins that we could separate and teach one of them to be a Seal and the other MMA their entire lives and not let them know they would have to fight to the death. This would be the purest way to test this fight.

You could even have a specified time period (say 3 months) before the fight where each fighter would be allowed to learn the others skills.

So now whats your answer??? This is all of course assuming no mental barriers with killing your brother.

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the obvious problem with this is... how do we ensure that these two become the very best at their respective profession?? it could be that they just turn into a mediocre MMA fighter and navy seal.

[Viscant]

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UFC champions are not the pinnacle of mixed martial arts, as UFC is one of the many brand names in Mixed Martial Arts.

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Exactly. The original question stated UFC champion, so I wouldn't pick that guy.

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I should leave this thread alone, but the UFC fan in me wants to respond. The only weight class where the UFC champion is clearly inferior to another MMA champion is heavyweight. UFC heavyweight division is hot garbage, but all othe weight classes their champion is either acclaimed to be the best worldwide at that weight or is definitely in the conversation.
Chuck Liddell (205) is usually ranked as the #1 LHW in the world, although he could be 2nd or 3rd.
Anderson Silva (185) is the only person in that weight class to beat another top 5 guy lately so he's usually thought to be #1 in the world. This division suffers from how UFC/PRIDE are split up and don't fight each other. The top 5 are generally accepted to be Silva, Filho, Franklin, Lindland, Misaki. Silva and Franklin fight for UFC (Silva having recently re-arranged Franklin's face), Filho and Misaki fight for PRIDE. Lindland fights for lesser organizations. This is a huge problem with modern MMA. It would be awesome to find out which of them is #1, but we probably won't know for a good 10 years at which point none of them will be in their prime anymore!
Georges St.Pierre is universally acclaimed as the best at 170. PRIDE doesn't have a 170 lb division anyways.
Sean Sherk is in the conversation as the best at 155. His rank isn't really set because he was fighting above his weight most of his career and his only 2 losses are to the aforementioned Georges St.Pierre and the #1 contender there. Even if you don't put him above Gomi or Sakurai, he wouldn't be an easy night for either of them.

Even the UFC heavyweight Tim Sylvia, while he would likely be crushed by Crocop and Fedor, and would probably still lose to Nogueira would likely be either a favorite or even money against any other man in the world.


Given equal weights, those 5 men would probably be safe bets against any other human being in the world, excepting other MMA fighters.



/End MMA fan discussion

[GiantBuddha]

I fold. I don't think I'm getting pot odds to justify a call here.

[ARTYFISHALL]

I just carry a magnum 375. I got it off a Harry Callahan.

[Stephen Touset]

Here's my thoughts, and a simple breakdown of an individual fight between all of them.

UFC vs. Boxer: UFC
UFC vs. SEAL: UFC
UFC vs. AMA: UFC
UFC vs. Street: UFC

Boxer vs. SEAL: Tossup
Boxer vs. AMA: AMA
Boxer vs. Street: Boxer

SEAL vs. AMA: Tossup
SEAL vs. Street: SEAL

AMA vs. Street: AMA

For those of you who know UFC, the fact that a UFC champ would take out anyone else one on one should be obvious. They have better condition, more experience fighting, and a lot more technique. For a boxer, I think a fight against a SEAL would simply be a matter of whether or not the fight goes to the ground or is a striking match. In striking, the boxer wins; with a ground fight, the SEAL has an advantage.

Against an excellent quality Asian martial artist, I think the martial artist would have an advantage. Most martial arts don't really emphasize actual combat (preferring limited sparring or cooperative training) any more, which would put them at a huge disadvantage. However, I would like to believe that a truly world-class, best-of-his-kind Asian martial artist should have that kind of experience, and would be able to leverage his technique and better grappling against a boxer. Against a street fighter, the boxer would win -- the street fighter likely has limited ability, and the boxer's raw strength and endurance would crush the street fighter.

A SEAL vs. martial artist would probably result in a tossup. The SEAL has better conditioning and more combat experience, but the martial artist's training and technique can probably put him on par with the SEAL.

Given that, we can consider how they'd do in a 5-man brawl. Note that this is only an evaluation of their ability to fight multiple people at once, not necessarily whether they would win in this particular matchup.

UFC: Good
Boxer: Good
SEAL: Poor
AMA: Poor
Street: Great

I think this breakdown should be pretty obvious. Before I begin the analysis, though, I want to simply state the assumption that ground-fighting skills are nearly useless in this kind of scenario. If you get on the ground, it is in everyone's else's best interest to team up and finish you off immediately. Being on the ground, you don't stand a chance.

The UFC champ would do passably well. He wouldn't have the most experience in a multi-person match, but his good conditioning, excellent strength, and ability to get off the ground when someone (incorrectly) attempts to grapple or knocks him down would be invaluable.

The boxer would do well, although probably not as well as the UFC champ. He has force, conditioning, and endurance on his side, but his limited ground fighting experience means if he goes down, he isn't coming back up. Still, endurance is a huge plus in a multi-party matchup.

The SEAL is at a huge disadvantage. He has great conditioning, but simply lacks the combat experience and the brute force of some of his other opponents. His ground fighting experience will be worth next to nil, and he doesn't have much else to back it up with. He'll be outclassed in striking by many of his other opponents, and isn't likely to stand a chance.

The AMA would perform the worst, because of his expected physical conditioning. Whereas the other competitors are likely to have brute force, endurance, and skill on their side, the AMA will only have technique. And technique is *much* harder to use fully in a heavily-crowded situation (i.e., enclosed 5-person match to the death).

The street fighter likely has the most experience of anyone in an all-out brawl between multiple parties, giving him an advantage. However, I doubt his experience alone would make up for the fact that individually, he can beat none of the other contenders.

Given all this, I think the UFC champ would be a clear victor. The street fighter, AMA expert, and SEAL will all be easy targets, and heads-up against a boxing champ, the UFC fighter wins no contest. My final breakdown, in order of who gets killed first?

5. Street Fighter
4. Martial Artist
3. SEAL
2. Boxer
1. UFC Fighter

Of course, this only really holds true if my assumptions are correct (which I believe they are). Feel free to pick the whole thing apart at your leisure. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DeadMoney_J]

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Given that, we can consider how they'd do in a 5-man brawl. Note that this is only an evaluation of their ability to fight multiple people at once,

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Earlier in the thread it is outlined that it will not be an "all-out" brawl but rather a 1 V. 1 matchup.

Over/Under on how many more people will post with the assumption of everyone fighting at once?

[Stephen Touset]

Sorry. I wasn't with this thread through the beginning, and I'm not going to read 77 pages of posts before me.

Maybe the original question was who would win in a 1 vs. 1 between all of them, but the question of an all-out brawl is interesting just the same.

[Zim]

Well, it appears the moderately talented thugs that train in MMA competitions have been given the nod in this debate, generally (it appears) based on their training:

Striking, takedowns, ground control practiced in a dynamic context in lieu of actually killing people on a regular basis is perhaps the best training FOR killing people on a regular basis (at least unarmed). This can also be substantiated by the number of NHB fighters who train and/or are in some form of Special Forces. Not to mention that many of these MMA'ers ARE exceptionally skilled martial artists.

Arguments for professional boxers have lacked any hard evidence, as have the little old ladies in China that can rip people apart. And there appears to be some evidence to the contrary, I posted a few clips.

There has only been one "streetfighter" that has made an appearance, and he was tuned by an amateur MMA'er.

But in the end, there can only be one winner. And I have it. Yes, this is the ONE MAN that can defeat the greatest skilled fighters in all the world ... unarmed, without even touching them. I shouldn't even show you this clip for fear of unravelling the small, puny world in which all of you inhabit.

But I am kind.

Ha! Seriously, this is an amusing clip. And I think it addresses a great deal of "hype" in the martial arts ... and the degree to which suggestibility affects better judgement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQdJf-rTVFo

Best,
Z.

[Colm]

karate (lol):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2bVEB2sY0I&eurl=

[Colm]

chinese goju karate fighter (his techniques are likely 'too dangerous' for the ufc):

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/f...p?fighterID=49