STTF SNG->cash thread - Page 75

bones · #**741** 09-06-2007, 11:01 AM

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J, the only hand that makes any sense for villain in that hand is 33-TT, since there arent any draws at all on the flop. I think if he c/c AX on that flop he would 100% c/c river with it. I guess he could have KQ some tiny % of the time but i cant really think of anything else that beats you.

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Isn't this how bad/trappy players play a J? Not that it's necessarily that, but still has to be in his range.

wuwei · #**742** 09-06-2007, 11:01 AM

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And another one from yesterday.
Effective stacks 523
I have TT in the HJ raise t14, SB calls, BB folds.
Flop is J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villain checks, I bet 27, He calls.
Turn is the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Check, check,
River is the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
He bets $60, I call.

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I like the hand - on the river it's a J or a smaller pocket pair, with the pair more likely.

First hand is tougher. I can see your thinking on the river (9 or air), but a 9 is a very possible hand for his turn raise and I'd have trouble calling with no reads.

edit: was thinking the oesd came on the turn, but I see now it was there on the flop if he had a 9, which means he's more likely to bet a 9 on the flop. Bleh, this one is still a harder call for me to make

costanza_g · #**743** 09-06-2007, 11:03 AM

He can also play a J this way too.

futuredoc85 · #**744** 09-06-2007, 11:05 AM

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J, the only hand that makes any sense for villain in that hand is 33-TT, since there arent any draws at all on the flop. I think if he c/c AX on that flop he would 100% c/c river with it. I guess he could have KQ some tiny % of the time but i cant really think of anything else that beats you.

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Isn't this how bad/trappy players play a J? Not that it's necessarily that, but still has to be in his range.

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yeah he could have a J i guess but most bad/trappy players will like check/minraise or bet small on the turn i think. i was going to edit and say he could have 22 there as well but i still like calling. I also think the type of players who play a J like this on the flop and turn are less likely to value bet the river w/ it.

wuwei · #**745** 09-06-2007, 11:10 AM

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I also think the type of players who play a J like this on the flop and turn are less likely to value bet the river w/ it.

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FWIW, I disagree quite a bit with this - most guys are going to fire at this river if they c/c the flop with a J. The thing that swings this toward a fun, quick river call is that his preflop range is weighted much more toward having a smaller pair than a hand with a J. So many guys cc an open in the sb with their pairs, and then c/c this kind of flop.

blackize · #**746** 09-06-2007, 11:13 AM

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I'm not folding QQ there if he has 44 or 55 it sucks. I think I just shove calling looks pretty huge and this isn't a good board to bluff on. Since he bluffed you earlier he will be a lot more inclined to call this flop shove with a jack.

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A shove is a pretty sizable overbet. And I don't think this is the spot to get it in and say "Meh cooler" if you're beat. A TAG calls an UTG raise from a nit. I doubt he does this with AJ planning to get it in for 120BBs with TPTK or TPGK. And even against a range of just decent draws bones has an equity deficit.

Board: 4d 5c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.970% 48.97% 00.00% 2424 0.00 { QdQs }
Hand 1: 51.030% 51.03% 00.00% 2526 0.00 { AcKc, AcQc, KcQc, 8c7c, 7c6c }

Add in 55 and 44
Board: 4d 5c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.025% 27.02% 00.00% 2943 0.00 { QdQs }
Hand 1: 72.975% 72.98% 00.00% 7947 0.00 { 55-44, AcKc, AcQc, KcQc, 8c7c, 7c6c }

Then including AJs only(to account for the low weight I assign it in his calling range)

Board: 4d 5c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.734% 37.73% 00.00% 5230 0.00 { QdQs }
Hand 1: 62.266% 62.27% 00.00% 8630 0.00 { 55-44, AcKc, AcQc, AJs, KcQc, 8c7c, 7c6c }

Now with AJo

Board: 4d 5c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.995% 53.00% 00.00% 12067 0.00 { QdQs }
Hand 1: 47.005% 47.00% 00.00% 10703 0.00 { 55-44, AcKc, AcQc, AJs, KcQc, 8c7c, 7c6c, AJo }

I think calling and playing poker gets the most value out of worse hands and is overall more +EV than racing for the dead money.

microbet · #**747** 09-06-2007, 11:33 AM

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nevertheless, should i reraise the turn?

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I really like microbets line on the turn and river. I usually don't agree with him because so much of his experience/br comes from being a luckbox. Here tho for once I like what he says. got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got yougot you got you got you got yougot you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you why do I suddenly feel like suzzer? oh well, got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got yougot you got you got you got yougot you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you got you 

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Wow, you're like the most immature trained killer and leader of trained killers I've ever met.

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This is a good way to end up in a ditch in Mexico, hippy.

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I guess it wasn't a good idea. I got drafted.

bones · #**748** 09-06-2007, 12:18 PM

Villain seems to be a not so good reg.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($112.20)
MP ($190.90)
CO ($100)
Button ($131.70)
SB ($124.60)
BB ($133.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7.

Turn: ($23) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($23) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero raises to $58, SB raises to $129.6 (All-In), Hero calls $43.20 (All-In).

Final Pot: $225.40

cakewalk · #**749** 09-06-2007, 12:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain seems to be a not so good reg.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($112.20)
MP ($190.90)
CO ($100)
Button ($131.70)
SB ($124.60)
BB ($133.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7.

Turn: ($23) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($23) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero raises to $58, SB raises to $129.6 (All-In), Hero calls $43.20 (All-In).

Final Pot: $225.40

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perfect.

what if river is 2c and villain leads for half pot ?

costanza_g · #**750** 09-06-2007, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain seems to be a not so good reg.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($112.20)
MP ($190.90)
CO ($100)
Button ($131.70)
SB ($124.60)
BB ($133.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7.

Turn: ($23) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($23) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero raises to $58, SB raises to $129.6 (All-In), Hero calls $43.20 (All-In).

Final Pot: $225.40

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You beat so many hands that he's willing to felt here.

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