Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job

[apefish]

Nat can you cross reference where any/multiple of the suspected accounts entered the 1K and busted early?

Or any mtts where this happened? It doesn't have to be ones where the cheaters won. In fact it may be as or more informative if they didn't get deep at all.
I guess I am operating under the assumption there would be a learning curve for a cheater trying to perfect his spots.

I'm not sure there is anything there- but maybe we can still find someone we know who has the actual bustout hands.

I am thinking that another look thru the mtt play history of Potripper and Greycat may make more sense at this point.
It's just been nagging at me and thought I'd suggest it.

[N 82 50 24]

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Nat can you cross reference where any/multiple of the suspected accounts entered the 1K and busted early?

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There is a lot of info on thepokerdb if anyone wants to check this type of thing out.

[ QUOTE ]
Or any mtts where this happened? It doesn't have to be ones where the cheaters won. In fact it may be as or more informative if they didn't get deep at all.
I guess I am operating under the assumption there would be a learning curve for a cheater trying to perfect his spots.

I'm not sure there is anything there- but maybe we can still find someone we know who has the actual bustout hands.

I am thinking that another look thru the mtt play history of Potripper and Greycat may make more sense at this point.
It's just been nagging at me and thought I'd suggest it.

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If any one finds anything suspicious on the db, please post it here. I haven't noticed anything all that weird except that they vary in buyins a lot and seem to win when they get deep.

But also, remember that I am pretty sure the superuser account was shared and not ALWAYS used with these accounts. So there are probably instances of someone like GRAYCAT or POTRIPPER playing an event but not having the assistance of the superuser. That's just my gut feeling though.

[NNNNOOOOONAN]

nat, seriously get some sleep

[2p2J]

This is amazing. I cant wait for a full, complete story.

[Chino Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Reading the "Gaming Associates" contribution to the Australian Senate Inquiry into the topic, they've made it there under the name of "Global Gaming Services Pty Ltd." Their representative was Stephen Toneguzzo, their Managing Director and Principal Consultant. Apparently, he was (still could be) the boss in October 1999.

(Just a note on this - appearing as a witness to such an inquiry is not evidence in itself that you're a particularly reliable/worthy person. I've provided evidence at an inquiry personally, and it was quite an interesting process.)

Some notes from his contribution
-he is a strong advocate of online gaming regulation (as opposed to banning or doing nothing about it)
-they've been employed to audit Lasseters in the past, a reputable Australian gaming operator
-their audit covered issues such as:[list] [*] the RNG is truly random [*] the games are fair[*]there are no misleading or deceptive comments on the site[*] there are no techniques of psychological manipulation[*] player privacy[*]databases be securely stored[*] the operating environment be behind various levels of firewalls and security and that the defence is in depth[*] applying Australian Dept. of Defence IT security policies to Lasseters[*] stop loss limits[*] self-exclusion[*] money laundering


He had this to say on security:
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Senator STOTT DESPOJA—In relation to online gambling, what are some of the
security threats or issues for online gambling with which the committee should be familiar, and specifically in relation to e-commerce transactions being adequately protected?

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Mr Toneguzzo—I have mentioned gambling, stock market, wagering, et cetera. You may hear representations that, ‘It does not need to apply to us because we have never had a problem.’ Quite often that is because they do not know they have ever had a problem. With large organisations, either (a) they do not know they have been hacked or (b) they know they have been hacked but it would affect their share value if they were to announce it to the market so they do not necessarily do that, one could suggest.

Essentially, what we are looking at in terms of security is wanting to protect the privacy
of the players—we are wanting to protect who those players are, how much they are
gambling. That player database is a substantial asset of any operator. It is also a potential source of blackmail. And, as this industry gets more competitive, I would expect that offshore operators or offshore groups may very well attempt to steal that player database to identify who the players are and then try to market to them. So there is that issue, and with that comes not only a loss of consumer confidence but also significant political embarrassment because the regulator has let that happen. The other issue is one of denial of service, and that is that every second you are off line is a second that you are losing money.

So there is that aspect, and a loss of income equals a loss of tax, fundamentally. There is also hacking a site, changing a web page, as has happened to governments here and to
different corporations.

With regard to security, I would suggest that fundamentally it is about maintaining
consumer confidence and continuity of business. If you lose consumer confidence that has a
significant political backlash on the regulators and the politicians. It also has the potential, I would suggest, to damage trade relations, especially if, hypothetically, a database with many Americans in it was suddenly bandied around the Internet. And, make no mistake, we will be a significant target—I know we are, from the sites that are up and running now—of people of other governments, of other corporations and of just the kid at school wanting to hack in and try to prove a point. Again, this is where the federal government comes in. If another government tries to take my site out, what do I do? Do I counterattack—knock out their banking system?


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He also made the point several times that in an online gaming operator, every transaction is recored.

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Sorry for qouting such a big post, but it is interesting and goes towards establishing the credibility of Gaming Associates:

http://www.gamingassociates.com/Pages/cons.aspx

Alan Pedley AssDip, AIEA

Alan pioneered all technology-based gambling regulation in the Northern Territory, establishing the world's first regulated internet gambling requirements and industry. Alan has been auditing interactive wagering control systems since the mid-1990's; consulting to some of the world's leading wagering and gaming companies since Dec-1998, in relation to information governance and risk management. Alan established the world's first internet gambling regulations enabling regulated interactive gambling industries .

Alan is recognised internationally as a leading expert of information governance in technology-based wagering and gaming industries. He has appeared as an expert witness before government reviews into technology-based gambling since early as 1995 (including the Australian Senate Review into Australia's Online Gambling Industry).

Alan is a principal consultant .


I took this directly from their website. According to this it was not Mr. Toneguzzo who alledgedly testified. More investigation needs to be put into this matter...

[El_Hombre_Grande]

From my understanding of the relationship of GA to KGC and AP, this isn't any sort of an "independent" audit. It would be like hiring your own attorney to investigate allegations of criminal conduct against you.

As for the final paragraph in Absolute Poker's latest response, it is clearly an attempt at a threat of legal action. However, the odd part is that it is full of "Bushism," or phrases that are ackwardly worded and tangentially related to correct legal terminology. I highly doubt it was reviewed or drafted by an attorney, at least an English speaking one.

And FWIW, I think a courtroom would be a great place to get to the bottom of this.

[fatshaft]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, since it seemed to be skipped over, pokerstars.com ultimatebet.com and fulltiltpoker.com are all hosted at MIT, along with many other gambling sites.

The important things to take away from the whole rivieraltd.com thing was:

Uses same NS servers as AP.

Was pointing to a block of IPs given to AP by MIT.

More importantly, all the DNS records (both A and MX) for that domain have now been pulled from colosseum.com's NS servers, although the mail server is still running. Scott is paying attention to this thread it looks like...

[/ QUOTE ]Pokerstars are licensed and hosted in the IoM. Totally different kettle of fish.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, since it seemed to be skipped over, pokerstars.com ultimatebet.com and fulltiltpoker.com are all hosted at MIT, along with many other gambling sites.

The important things to take away from the whole rivieraltd.com thing was:

Uses same NS servers as AP.

Was pointing to a block of IPs given to AP by MIT.

More importantly, all the DNS records (both A and MX) for that domain have now been pulled from colosseum.com's NS servers, although the mail server is still running. Scott is paying attention to this thread it looks like...

[/ QUOTE ]Pokerstars are licensed and hosted in the IoM. Totally different kettle of fish.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.pokerstars.com/kahnawake/

[Josem]

Chino,

Good pickup.

Alan Pedley spoke immediately before Mr Toneguzzo. In his testimony, he talks about how he is employed by Mr Toneguzzo's company to consult on various bits and pieces.

Mr Pedley spoke about player identification (100-point ID systems) and international issues of regulation and so on.

He did not discuss the issue of technical security in any significant way.


Btw, you quote that he has an "AssDip." That would be an associate diploma, which is a very low level of tertiary qualification - it's the first step up from the formal Australian short-course system (Certificates I, II, III and IV). I imagine that one would be able to obtain an Associate Diploma very easily and without much academic endeavour relative to a degree or something else.

[Chino Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Chino,

Good pickup.

Alan Pedley spoke immediately before Mr Toneguzzo. In his testimony, he talks about how he is employed by Mr Toneguzzo's company to consult on various bits and pieces.

Mr Pedley spoke about player identification (100-point ID systems) and international issues of regulation and so on.

He did not discuss the issue of technical security in any significant way.


Btw, you quote that he has an "AssDip." That would be an associate diploma, which is a very low level of tertiary qualification - it's the first step up from the formal Australian short-course system (Certificates I, II, III and IV). I imagine that one would be able to obtain an Associate Diploma very easily and without much academic endeavour relative to a degree or something else.

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Lol! Thanks for the clarification, but I was really hoping it was his last name [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think that is also interesting that he has such a low level certification if he is such an 'expert' in his field...