Yanks offer job to Girardi

[Matt Williams]

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Shouldn't a manager's job be about doing the best for the team, not just his own selfish priorities?

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Only if he is a retard who wants to be unemployed at the end of the year.

Its the manager's job to attempt to, but if the FO thwarts him in every attempt to do so then he has to do his best to deliver on his job...aka get to playoffs. If he has to overwork pitchers than so be it.

It is much different than Joe Torre choosing to overwork and destroy his relievers arms/confidence when he had other options available to him that were not terrible.

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Case in point, I'm pretty sure Girardi wouldn't have brought Joba/Mo into Game 3 with NY up by 5 runs.

[Mondogarage]

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Vyse, there's very little doubt to my mind that with the question of pitching the youngsters with a slight chance at the wildcard, Loria would have ordered full steam ahead.

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As will Hank Steinbrenner, and that's the crux of the issue, really, at least as it pertains to Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, etc. It's easy for Hank to say otherwise now, but when your father's control of the team just resulted in 12 playoff years in a row, do you really think he'll sit by and let a reasonably possible playoff run go by the wayside, just because his pitchers are young?

[Matt Williams]

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Vyse, there's very little doubt to my mind that with the question of pitching the youngsters with a slight chance at the wildcard, Loria would have ordered full steam ahead.

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As will Hank Steinbrenner, and that's the crux of the issue, really, at least as it pertains to Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, etc. It's easy for Hank to say otherwise now, but when your father's control of the team just resulted in 12 playoff years in a row, do you really think he'll sit by and let a reasonably possible playoff run go by the wayside, just because his pitchers are young?

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Mondo, you keep forgetting something important. The Yankees have resourses that other teams don't. If they need someone in June, they will get it whether it's a trade or call up. If they are 10 games out in June and Santana is still available, they will get him. They stared the 2007 season almost 10 games under .500 on June 1st and made the WC. The were 11-19 in 2005 I think. It's not like it's an organization like the Royals that has no shot. You are making a big mistake if you think NY is all of a sudden just not going to win anymore.

[RandomUser]

The Yankees can still win, but they won't be able to beat the Red Sox for the Division crown consistently for the next few years.

[Mondogarage]

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Vyse, there's very little doubt to my mind that with the question of pitching the youngsters with a slight chance at the wildcard, Loria would have ordered full steam ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

As will Hank Steinbrenner, and that's the crux of the issue, really, at least as it pertains to Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, etc. It's easy for Hank to say otherwise now, but when your father's control of the team just resulted in 12 playoff years in a row, do you really think he'll sit by and let a reasonably possible playoff run go by the wayside, just because his pitchers are young?

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Mondo, you keep forgetting something important. The Yankees have resourses that other teams don't. If they need someone in June, they will get it whether it's a trade or call up. If they are 10 games out in June and Santana is still available, they will get him. They stared the 2007 season almost 10 games under .500 on June 1st and made the WC. The were 11-19 in 2005 I think. It's not like it's an organization like the Royals that has no shot. You are making a big mistake if you think NY is all of a sudden just not going to win anymore.

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I'm not forgetting any of that at all. What I am saying is that, if the Yankees are in a position to get there, but aren't quite there, do they let Girardi push those young arms like he did in Florida? Yes, Santana may be out there next year -- this year, there were no premier rent-a-pitchers out there for the stretch run, only abject retreads. Of course the Yankees won't stand pat, but if the pickings end up being as slim as they where in early August of this year (quite probably not, but possibly), then don't Hank and Cashman start having Girardi ride those arms? Because if there is one certainty out there, it's that Hank isn't going to accept winning next year any less than George would have.

The Yankees have plenty of resources, and they had them this year, but there weren't the arms to be had. That could always turn out to be the case next year.

[TMTTR]

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What's more important: the miniscule chance they had to make the playoffs (miniscule may be overstating it, but I know off my head it wasn't large) or the long-term benefit of the organization not raping the pitchers?


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You don't know what you are talking about. I randomly selected a couple of dates: On September 7, 2006, Florida was 3.5 games out of the wild card with 22 games to play. On September 12, 2006, Florida was 2 games out of the wild card with 17 games to play. Their chances were far above miniscule and apparently your "head" is way "off" -- or just blinded by your unsupported positions...

Do you really think any organization that is 2 to 3.5 games out of a playoff spot is going to shut down pitchers that are performing well, appear healthy, and show no signs of injury, with more than two weeks left in the season? No way.

Regarding the arms: The more impartial evaluations I have seen indicate that, while Girardi did not coddle the youngsters, he also did very little that would be consider abusive. In hindsight, you can hunt for evidence of abuse in the numbers alone, but you need to consider: (1) the health of these pitchers prior to the 2006 season, (2) the limited options available to the manager, and (3) the simple fact that succesful pitchers -- young and old -- are going to pitch more pitches and more innings thereby running up numbers that may look "abusive" when taken out of context.

[TMTTR]

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Vyse, there's very little doubt to my mind that with the question of pitching the youngsters with a slight chance at the wildcard, Loria would have ordered full steam ahead.

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As will Hank Steinbrenner, and that's the crux of the issue, really, at least as it pertains to Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, etc. It's easy for Hank to say otherwise now, but when your father's control of the team just resulted in 12 playoff years in a row, do you really think he'll sit by and let a reasonably possible playoff run go by the wayside, just because his pitchers are young?

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He shouldn't! Pitchers shouldn't be abused but they should pitch! There is certainly a fine line between pushing and abuse, but Girardi did not abuse the pitchers in Florida and I expect it to be further from the elusive line in NY.

Fact is that pitchers get hurt and young pitchers get hurt more frequently without a clear indication of what the cause is. Care is necessary but not coddling.

[DesertCat]

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Shouldn't a manager's job be about doing the best for the team, not just his own selfish priorities?

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Only if he is a retard who wants to be unemployed at the end of the year.

Its the manager's job to attempt to, but if the FO thwarts him in every attempt to do so then he has to do his best to deliver on his job...aka get to playoffs. If he has to overwork pitchers than so be it.

It is much different than Joe Torre choosing to overwork and destroy his relievers arms/confidence when he had other options available to him that were not terrible.

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there is little doubt the organisation needs to take some responsibility here but you are ignoring the fact that they did put in usage guidelines, Girardi broke them, and a young starter got injured. There is also zero evidence Girardi is a competent manager, the team underperformed, and his anger issues were worrisome. That said, I'd trust Cashman and expectwith his guidance to see a much improved Girardi.

[Franchise 60]

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the team underperformed

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You cannot be serious. The 06' Marlins did not underperform.

[CharlieDontSurf]

well Rob Neyer like him lol


SportsNation Rob Neyer: If the Yankees stick with him through what might be a tough (for them) 2008, I think Girardi might make people forget all about Joe Torre. Seriously.