About Ed and Elaine Brown, the couple who refused to pay taxes..

[Misfire]

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But people who believe in the rule of law don't typically erect barriers between themselves and the police.

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I think they would if they thought the police were acting in violation of the law.

[Misfire]

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Apparently it is unconstitutional to charge a federal tax for various reasons

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For those who have never read the Constitution or, in particular, the 16th Amendment:
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The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


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If I understand their argument right, it goes: The courts struck down a tax on wages as unconstitutional. The 16th amendment was passed. The courts ruled that the 16th gave the government "no new taxation powers," which means it's still unconstitutional to tax wages.

There's also the argument that it was not properly ratified, and therefore is an "unconstitutional constitutional amendment."

[bobman0330]

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But people who believe in the rule of law don't typically erect barriers between themselves and the police.

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I think they would if they thought the police were acting in violation of the law.

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Are you really arguing that "the rule of law" means that everyone does what they think is right? People's consciences are not laws.

[Misfire]

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Are you really arguing that "the rule of law" means that everyone does what they think is right? People's consciences are not laws.

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No, I'm saying that if people believe the police are acting in violation of actual statute, they're likely to resist in the name of supporting the "rule of law" (as opposed to the rule of police/IRS/FBI/ATF/etc actions that are in violation of that law).

This is a tough point to make clear because there is a lot of objective evidence against their position. The Browns, however, believe they are being perfectly objective in their belief that there is no law requiring them to pay federal taxes. They don't see it as merely a matter of conscience.

[riptas_96]

There is no law stating that American citizens in the private sector have to pay a mandatory tax on their income. Meaning, if you work as a government worker, ranging from a teacher to a police officer, you have to pay income tax. The private sector is the average Joe going to work at the local electronics store. You can search and watch funny videos of IRS Commissioners being asked this question in interviews or while addressing the press, and they blow it off or laugh and say no comment and stuff.

Not saying I 100% believe it all because I'm no tax expert, but you can find alot of tax experts, ex-IRS agents who left the IRS after finding out this law was a sham, and elected state representatives who can tell you all about this being true. And i don't mean crazy conspiracy nut cases either.

Please comment back kinda curious what your thoughts are...


Adam

[elwoodblues]

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There is no law stating that American citizens in the private sector have to pay a mandatory tax on their income.
Adam

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Nor are there tax laws differentiating between private sector and and public sector employees. Rather, the tax law is both broad and clear.

Section 1 of the code (I omitted all of the joint return status, just to demonstrate the individual liability --- bolding is mine):
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(c) [FN1] Unmarried individuals (other than surviving spouses and heads of households).--There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individual (other than a surviving spouse as defined in section 2(a) or the head of a household as defined in section 2(b)) who is not a married individual (as defined in section 7703) a tax determined in accordance with the following table: [table omitted]

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Section 63 defines taxable income:

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In general.--Except as provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle, the term “taxable income” means gross income minus the deductions allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction).


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Section 61 of the tax code defines gross income:
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(a) General definition.--Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:


(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;


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These 3 section clearly establish tax liability for ALL INDIVIDUALS (not just public sector) on the income from their "compensation for services" (read: wages). It really is pretty clear.

[AngusThermopyle]

1994 article on Brown.

[bobman0330]

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Are you really arguing that "the rule of law" means that everyone does what they think is right? People's consciences are not laws.

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No, I'm saying that if people believe the police are acting in violation of actual statute, they're likely to resist in the name of supporting the "rule of law" (as opposed to the rule of police/IRS/FBI/ATF/etc actions that are in violation of that law).

This is a tough point to make clear because there is a lot of objective evidence against their position. The Browns, however, believe they are being perfectly objective in their belief that there is no law requiring them to pay federal taxes. They don't see it as merely a matter of conscience.

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This I get, but the rule of law implies that these disputes about what the law is will be resolved. In this case, there was a trial before a fair and impartial court which found that the Browns were wrong. If you believe in the rule of law, you have to submit at some point.

[ikestoys]

Why are these people heroes? You do realize they are only trying to freeroll everyone else. No one likes a freeroller lol

[rpr]

From the Hard-Wilsonian/Neo-Conservative Manifesto:

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.