Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking

[Prodigy54321]

...someone remind me to read the whole thread before I respond next time [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I'm trying to figure out which theist I confused Sephus with

[Sephus]

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this is all supported by scripture, which is from god according to scripture. god is good, of course, by definition, and a good god would give us something like scripture, which he did.


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if god is good by definition, then he would also be a "good god" if he didn't give us something like scripture

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you just blew my mind!

[Prodigy54321]

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this is all supported by scripture, which is from god according to scripture. god is good, of course, by definition, and a good god would give us something like scripture, which he did.


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if god is good by definition, then he would also be a "good god" if he didn't give us something like scripture

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you just blew my mind!

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converting fake theists gives me my jollies

[foal]

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if you don't believe in god, why not go on a killing spree? there's no reason not to that i can think of.

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Not to be insulting, but I don't think you can have thought of it very hard.

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so you think the holocaust was ok??

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You said there was no reason not to go on a killing spree if you don't believe in god. I don't believe in god and I can give dozens of reasons not go on a killing spree. So I fail to see the significance of your question.

I am actually fairly certain that even people who think the holocaust _was_ ok can think of many reasons not go on various forms of killing sprees.

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the audacity of your materialstic alkalinity brings this desiccated new way of thinking to the forefront. to see the folly in this you must only look to the end of our selves, and see that it is really a beginning of a new end. when you first realize that your confusion is the result of denying that which is underscored by the stars, the preponderance of despondence will demonstrate the god living and the god dying, and the clear way of thinking will beckon understanding from the burgeoning ethereal new openness of the eye of your self.

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This was an awesome exchange. I was almost going to post it in my blog until I realized it wasn't serious.

[ZeeJustin]

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I have eliminated your social records and have you locked up in a room on my private ranch. No one is searching for you. On a whim, I've decided to shoot you in the head. You have one minute to give me a reason why I should not kill you. Go.

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Level or serious?

Is your understanding of human nature so poor and so reliant upon the existence of god that you think this scenario would ever come up?

There's this thing called evolution which over time has developed this thing called a brain which operates in a very specific way. Thanks to evolution, the brain operates in a way that leads to survival and reproduction.

People have very strong feelings for community, and don't go around killing people randomly unless they have serious mental diseases.

Furthermore, even forgetting this irrational explanation, if humans were purely logical creatures (which they are not), it would still be in their best interest to not go around killing each other. For starters, they would be less likely to be killed themselves.

People have this [censored] up belief that all their morals come from God when religion motivates through fear and greed alone.

The rest of us that use logic develop a system of morals based on basic logic and common courtesy, and yes, utility as well.

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Pffft. This common courtesy and basic logic talk is a bunch of utopian crap when experience has shown us that if one could lie, cheat, steal, and murder their way for personal advantage without consequence, he gladly would. People try it all the time.

Religion is a supreme societal advantage, for a god sees things what other people can't, and therefore can check behaviour.

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And you think religion works? The laws are way to strict for people not to interpret them into a way that benefits them. There's not a single person on this planet (other than maybe a blind/deaf mute or two) that hasn't broken one of the ten commandments.

People accuse atheists of being willing to commit any crime assuming there are no consequences, but there are absolutely no stats that would indicate an atheist is more likely to than a theist, god or no god.

In fact, history indicates the opposite. See my previous post about the Holocaust and 9-11 and what not. Not only are the set of morals way to open to interpretation, but many of the ones that aren't, are MAJORLY flawed. Both the bible and the Qur'an give some extremely nasty examples of when murder is not only OK, but the only godly course of action, not to mention the rape, pillaging, and biggotry they both ENCOURAGE.

So what you have to say is nice in theory, but it's not reality, not by a long shot.

[NotReady]

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There have been studies, however, that show that there is no correlation between religiousness and charity. Atheists give just as much to charity per capita.


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Link?

[ZeeJustin]

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There have been studies, however, that show that there is no correlation between religiousness and charity. Atheists give just as much to charity per capita.


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Link?

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Was told that once, never thought to research it. Guess it is BS. At least I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong.

[Peter666]

"The laws are way to strict for people not to interpret them into a way that benefits them."

I don't understand what you mean by this. A strict law equates to strict human behaviour. Did you really mean an obscure law?

Second, you have stated that rape, pillaging, and bigotry are evil, but have not indicated the laws that say they are. In fact, if I was a Tatar, I would be highly offended by your bigoted and racist ideology which is an affront to my people. What exactly is the basis of your morality?

[Prodigy54321]

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There have been studies, however, that show that there is no correlation between religiousness and charity. Atheists give just as much to charity per capita.


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Link?

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Was told that once, never thought to research it. Guess it is BS. At least I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong.

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John Stossel article
which I believe was also on 20/20.

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Finally, Brooks says one thing stands out as the biggest predictor of whether someone will be charitable: "their religious participation." Religious people are more likely to give to charity, and when they give, they give more money -- four times as much.

But doesn't that giving just stay within the religion?

"No," says Brooks, "Religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly nonreligious charities. Religious people give more blood; religious people give more to homeless people on the street."


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-EDIT: click on FULL ARTICLE AND COMMENTS to read criticisms of it

IMO, it seems pretty likely that religious people give more than nonreligious people...whether it is per capita or as a percentage of income...

there is simply an extra motivation to give...

but I made a post about this a while back

Here it is
---there's a very good post by luckyme towards the bottom

[ZeeJustin]

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I don't understand what you mean by this. A strict law equates to strict human behaviour. Did you really mean an obscure law?

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A law as strict as "though shalt not lie" is far less likely to be obided by than one such as "though shalt not kill".

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What exactly is the basis of your morality?

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Hard to say. I don't believe in absolute right and wrong. Generally though, the most utilitarian course of action is the one I would consider the most morally correct.