AJ in a 3bet pot (help me not frig up this river)

[BobboFitos]

Kinda funny I got mentioned in the c/r camp considering I didn't post that's what I'd do. All I said was there is clear value there, which there is.

[gman06]

[ QUOTE ]
Kinda funny I got mentioned in the c/r camp considering I didn't post that's what I'd do. All I said was there is clear value there, which there is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't mean to put you in that camp Bobbo. But I do strongly disagree that you will often get called by worse there.

[Unknown Soldier]

great post gman

[Ship Ship McGipp]

obviously cc is best on the turn, CRing is bad, and betting is pretty close behind cc.

obviously gmans post is right but how could you people be thinking anything BUT that. it's all pretty basic.

[jlocdog]

I love when posts like, 'c/r is so bad and your a tard for thinking otherwise'.

Get over yourselves people. I never disregarded c/c as a viable option. I also don't think either is too fasr wrong/right/better/worse to be making emphatic statements such as these. When egos collide I guess....

Again the misplayed portion of this hand is in the river but we continue t focus on a point that didn't develop, being a checked through turn.

Oh well, I guess I'm a tard. Nothing new....

[jfish]

[ QUOTE ]
obviously cc is best on the turn, CRing is bad, and betting is pretty close behind cc.

obviously gmans post is right but how could you people be thinking anything BUT that. it's all pretty basic.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats what i was thinking, i was kinda confused when phresh was asking me to explain it in detail. and i def dont know why parlay likes a c/r.

[Jamougha]

[ QUOTE ]

if we're not behind and we dont get called, it means villain can never bet/call ANY hand here, thereby making a turn c/r bluff with PURE AIR very profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is not correct, it also depends on the frequency with which he bets the turn.

Basically I don't think there are many made hands that he's bet/folding here. For him to bet/call a worse hand he needs to think we're retardedly spewy, or that we never cr a strong hand on this turn, which is just getting way too far into high level thinking given that we do not have much of a read on either player involved.

[gman06]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

if we're not behind and we dont get called, it means villain can never bet/call ANY hand here, thereby making a turn c/r bluff with PURE AIR very profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is not correct, it also depends on the frequency with which he bets the turn.

Basically I don't think there are many made hands that he's bet/folding here. For him to bet/call a worse hand he needs to think we're retardedly spewy, or that we never cr a strong hand on this turn, which is just getting way too far into high level thinking given that we do not have much of a read on either player involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point and something I didn't elaborate on in my earlier post. Without extensive history and knowledge that villian is capable of thinking on a very high level, his bet on the turn will almost always mean 2 things: 1) I have a hand that beats AJ and am not folding to a c/r. 2) I don't have a hand and am folding to a c/r. Either way, it becomes clear that the c/c >>>>> c/r.

And aejones, I completely agree that my post does not offer any profound insight. But so many people were advocating all kinds of weird lines, so I thought I would clear it up.

[Phresh]

[ QUOTE ]
Phresh,

Reread the whole thread and list the points of contention. You seem to be wanting to take all sides. List both turn and river differences....

[/ QUOTE ]

Both sides have merit.


[ QUOTE ]
Also, if he had 2 diamonds, c/calling becomes the obvious play as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has 2 diamonds he is most likely shoving river. Are we calling that?


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On an A,J, or diamond turn, I am open pushing. I think the chances of him checking behind a medium strength hand or giving up on the pot are just too high to check and try to induce a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very likely that he'll check behind his medium strength hands, but you expect him to call your river shove? I don't think we get paid off on this river very often at all.

[EgoSlasher]

[ QUOTE ]
he would have to be an idiot to check the turn with a made hand

basically the river changes nothing, if he raises he nearly always has a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]


If this is true then why aren't we c/cing?


Looks like a c/c to me, I think assuming he's floating your 3bets w/ KJ and JT is an assumption we can't make without additional information, or even if u auto-accept that you have to at least discount them.. Even if we assume he is making those plays, we're also going to assume he checks them behind on the turn? I don't buy it. We gain more value from inducing bluffs on the river than we do by betting imo.