Black market schools

[Bill Haywood]

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Dude, it was a joke. It's a "particle accelerator". Get it? Particle accelerator?

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I totally missed it, but it is pretty funny.

[AlexM]

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First off, its a stretch to say that these schools are black market. You don't exactly see the cops busting down doors and hauling kids to public schools. Second, the evidence that private schools are better is mixed:

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A study based on a survey of parent satisfaction published earlier this year by researchers at Columbia University found that relying on private markets can undermine educational equity and universal access. Furthermore, it argues, private schools strive for superior quality only where they compete with government schools; otherwise they offer "lower-quality, second-chance" educations to children without any other option. "There is no reason to assume that private markets will necessarily improve the quality of education," the study concludes.

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So the sum total of that article is the anedcotal evidence with a huge selection bias says private schools are better, but a more objective analysis says public schools are a reasonable alternative.

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What a silly quote. They're always competing with government schools!

[natedogg]

Another fine commentary on public school system can be found here: Tom McClintock says it straight

Excerpt:
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The Governor proposed spending $10,084 per student from all sources. Devoting all of this money to the classroom would require turning tens of thousands of school bureaucrats, consultants, advisors and specialists onto the streets with no means of support or marketable job skills, something that no enlightened social democracy should allow.

So I will begin by excluding from this discussion the entire budget of the State Department of Education, as well as the pension system, debt service, special education, child care, nutrition programs and adult education. I also propose setting aside $3 billion to pay an additional 30,000 school bureaucrats $100,000-per-year (roughly the population of Monterey) with the proviso that they stay away from the classroom and pay their own hotel bills at conferences.


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natedogg

[Misfire]

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Another fine commentary on public school system can be found here: Tom McClintock says it straight

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This is GOLD.

[FooSH]

In a world of privatly owned schools there will always be some cost to the parent, right?

What happens to the kids of the junky/breadline/neglectful/lazy parent who refuses to, or cannot, pay?

Without the most basic level of schooling, crime seems to be the only valid career choice. I'm all for people being punished for bad choices, but there needs to be some grace for the next generation.

[Nielsio]

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I'm all for people being punished for bad choices, but there needs to be some grace for the next generation.

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Is it voluntary?

[pvn]

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In a world of privatly owned schools there will always be some cost to the parent, right?

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There's always a cost to *someone*. Just like there is always a cost to someone in a world of state-run, coercively funded schools.

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What happens to the kids of the junky/breadline/neglectful/lazy parent who refuses to, or cannot, pay?

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I don't know. What would you like to happen? Perhaps someone (like you, perhaps) will think these kids need some education and allocate some funds towards that goal. You seem to think it's a worthy cause, are you willing to pay for it? Or are you only in favor of it when you can make other people pay for it?

[tolbiny]

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Some education > than no education

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I've got to correct myself here since I'm about to contradict this statement if its taken to literally. The opportunity for education is > that no opportunity, which means of course, choice.

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Without the most basic level of schooling, crime seems to be the only valid career choice

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The issue here is that many people do operate under the assumption that public schools are better than nothing. Sad truth is that forcing children into poor schools is actually damaging. The set up of these schools is one where a teacher is frequently just trying to maintain some order for a year, and then get a new batch of kids. Long term relationships are not developed frequently between adults and children, parents are told to give up their responsibilities 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 40 weeks a year, and then its "surprising" to people that parents don't know how to handle their kids. Humans evolved in closely knit social structures where interaction with familiar figures was a daily occurrence. Adults were not just authority figures but friends, teachers, nurses, whatever was needed at the time. The public school system totally screws that (and at the same time provides a lousy education) and it should be no surprise that crime rates among youth increased the more forced schooling there was.

[Misfire]

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In a world of privatly owned schools there will always be some cost to the parent, right?

What happens to the kids of the junky/breadline/neglectful/lazy parent who refuses to, or cannot, pay?

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There will be those. However, there are those now, and there are also those who attend school but for all practical purposes get no education. You have to ask whether we'd be better off overall, not whether some individuals might fall through the cracks. There's a point where the expense of leaving no child behind exceeds its value.

Also, I still don't see why providing education for the poorest of the poor requires providing schooling for 100% of the population. Yes education is a necessity, and it's horrible to think anyone goes without it, but food is the same way--even more so because without food you die. We have a private market that does a pretty damn good job providing plenty food at affordable prices (despite being artificially propped up). Yes, we have food stamps for a small portion of the population (and even then, the people are issued vouchers to buy what they choose...what a novel idea), but hardly anyone is calling for 100% government funding of food. (And just imagine what that would taste like!)

[FooSH]

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In a world of privatly owned schools there will always be some cost to the parent, right?

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There's always a cost to *someone*. Just like there is always a cost to someone in a world of state-run, coercively funded schools.

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Of course. It just so happens in this case, the cost futher down the line could exceed the up front costs. The children of these uneducated people will have even less chance than their parents, when added to the next generation of regular deadbeat offspring you get a kind of negative feedback that can only get worse.


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What happens to the kids of the junky/breadline/neglectful/lazy parent who refuses to, or cannot, pay?

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I don't know. What would you like to happen? Perhaps someone (like you, perhaps) will think these kids need some education and allocate some funds towards that goal. You seem to think it's a worthy cause, are you willing to pay for it? Or are you only in favor of it when you can make other people pay for it?

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Like 95% of the population, I'm lazy, given a chance i probably wouldn't give money if it was strictly voluntary. I'm glad money goes out of my paycheck because i see the long term benefits of lower crime and a competent basic workforce. As everyone in society recieves exactly the same benefits, then i see no problem charging accordingly.

If it was left to voluntary contributions, there would not be enough money. You may veiw taxation as theft, but do you really rate theft as a worse than destroying an innocent childs life?