Do you win at 6/12 at the Bay 101?

[threeducks]

Okay - last post on this thread. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I have enough information for the moment.

Thanks everyone. BTW, I was serious on how good I need to be - not a 'Why can't I beat this game kind of whining looking for a shoulder to cry on'.

I know my game needs work and I will study SSHE. I got my answer to my question.

All future posts will be in the Small Stakes forum.

[threeducks]

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Do I need to be better than 80% of the players in order to win?

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if your asking this question it sounds like your really looking for a psychiatrist to make you feel better, rather than working on improving your game. My answer is loaded for a reason... its designed to make you look within for the answer.

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A little ZEN there huh TT [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks - I really do not care to feel better. I am not a feel good guy. My goal is to beat the game.

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Then stop asking questions you would ask a poker psychiatrist, stop talking about if its possible to win at the 6/12 game, stop responding to this thread, and get started with your studying!

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See last post - thanks.

[fishyak]

I don't know if this will help, but I think that you may be putting too much pressure on yourself to sit down and immediately win. You state that if you drop a rack, $200, you quit? That's 18.5 BB's. I think you have to be ready to accept larger downswings of closer to 40-50 BB's in a single session before you should bail, particularly if you are encountering high variance.

I get the feeling, along with some of your comments that you tend to tilt too often and too easily. I suggest that you keep a written diary after EVERY session and self report for tilts of any kind. Write down and post about specific hands that bother you. I suspect you play inconsistently, and are not disciplined about application of our 2+2 game plans.

You can study all you want, but if you tilt and throw the rule book out, none of your studying matters. Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Have I met the enemy and is it me?" I almost went pro at golf as a kid. Poker and golf have a lot in common in the both have a large mental self control element. If that element slips at golf, even for a single shot, you're a loser. You are setting off my tilt radar. Am I right?

[Captain R]

3 more comments:

1. I think Internet Texas Hold 'em is actually a better book than SSHE for 6-12. SSHE has you 3-betting with KQs which is too aggressive IMO. I think it also recommends cold-calling with AXs in some spots.

2. Semi-bluffing/Bluffing? What the heck? This is small stakes hold'em. You don't win in a 6-12 game by bluffing.

3. The key is really watching people. You should know who to fold against when they raise you on the turn. You should know who to check-raise with top pair no kicker. You should know who/when to 3-bet the flop against with middle pair. You should know whether you should be 3-betting or folding AQ preflop.

[*TT*]

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3 more comments:

1. I think Internet Texas Hold 'em is actually a better book than SSHE for 6-12. SSHE has you 3-betting with KQs which is too aggressive IMO. I think it also recommends cold-calling with AXs in some spots.

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ok, your done giving bad advice. Anyone advising cookie cutter approach to poker should be listening to the advice, not giving advice. SSHE is not a book about pre-flop play, its one of the best post flop play books ever written. Its about adjusting to loose passive, and loose agressive tables. Its about learning how to play in multi-way pots. And there is nowhere that I can ever recall in that book where it advises 3-betting KQs, and if your not cold calling with Axs on the button in huge multi-way pots your leaving massive amounts of equity behind - assuming you play well post flop.

wake up call - in limit hold'em money is made post flop in multi-way hands, not pre-flop.

PS: I know this thread is now dead, but his advice was so typical of the anti-2+2 strat-forum sentiment that I wanted to vomit.

[steamboatin]

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I think 24/29 voted that they win.

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Some of them lied.

I think you guys are being a little too hard on threeducks, at least he has balls enough to post and ask for help.

I distinctly remember making posts very similar to his not very many years ago and you can give him a hard time but if you truly don't understand what is happening and why you are losing, it is hard as hell to figure out. If poker doesn't come natural to you, like it doesn't for me, it just takes hours and hours of playing and reading and studying.

I think that some of the posters on this forum have more natural ability than others so they don't understand why some of us don't get it as easy as they do. Of course some are lying about their results but some are not.

I distintcly remember making a post in this forum about someone calling my raise with 57s and cracking my KK. It was just after SSHE came out and I think it got heated enough that Ed Miller might have joined in to clarify a point from SSHE. The point is, it wasn't nearly as bad of a play on the villian's part as I believed at the time.

I probably haven't made my point very well but if you don't understand poker, it is hard to understand and if poker doesn't come natural to you, it is even harder.

[*TT*]

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If poker doesn't come natural to you, like it doesn't for me, it just takes hours and hours of playing and reading and studying.

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Steam is the origional threeducks. I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Steam, he has made me very proud.

[threeducks]

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I don't know if this will help, but I think that you may be putting too much pressure on yourself to sit down and immediately win. You state that if you drop a rack, $200, you quit? That's 18.5 BB's. I think you have to be ready to accept larger downswings of closer to 40-50 BB's in a single session before you should bail, particularly if you are encountering high variance.

I get the feeling, along with some of your comments that you tend to tilt too often and too easily. I suggest that you keep a written diary after EVERY session and self report for tilts of any kind. Write down and post about specific hands that bother you. I suspect you play inconsistently, and are not disciplined about application of our 2+2 game plans.

You can study all you want, but if you tilt and throw the rule book out, none of your studying matters. Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Have I met the enemy and is it me?" I almost went pro at golf as a kid. Poker and golf have a lot in common in the both have a large mental self control element. If that element slips at golf, even for a single shot, you're a loser. You are setting off my tilt radar. Am I right?

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yes, I (used to) tilt easy - that is what Ed Miller said (I read The Poker Mindset and Your worst Poker enemy to address tilt). *TT* I am studying SSHE now. I am reviewing the section on value betting the river. This is a weakness of mine.

40-50BB - I will have to give that some consideration.

[Captain R]

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ok, your done giving bad advice. Anyone advising cookie cutter approach to poker should be listening to the advice,


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I gave cookie-cutter advice? Did you skip the point where I said you have to know when to 3-bet AQ and when to fold it preflop? That you have to know when to 3-bet middle pair? That you have to know when to check-raise TPNK vs. betting out? I think the point of these ideas is that poker is NOT cookie-cutter.

Nowhere did I say limit hold'em is only about preflop play, would you re-read my post with 4 basic points on what it takes to beat a 6-12 game? I'm pretty sure 1/4 points are about preflop play.

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And there is nowhere that I can ever recall in that book where it advises 3-betting KQs,


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Page 83.

Geez, talk about poor advice, you're recommending the guy read HGIYLHE and Stox book. Those books are for a completely different game than the 6-12 Bay101 game. I have those books and they're great for middle limit + games, but the guy can't even beat 6-12 and doesn't know how to play SSHE-style and you're recommending him shorthanded/middle limit+ books?

[pig4bill]

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Also, on comparing the 5-200 SLHE to the 6 and 8 LHE games.

Overall, if you are better at game selection and/or are friendly with the floorstaff at Bay101, you'll be much better served playing the 5-200 on a regular basis (Thats assuming your skill at LHE = your skill at NLHE).

The SLHE at Bay101 is one of the most inconsistent games (in terms of how good it is) in the bay area. When it is bad, it is BAD. If you pick and choose your spots (knowing the wealthy bad players, etc...) you'll make much more money playing 5-200 than LHE. But if you don't have good table selection skills and/or don't goto 101 on a regular basis (2+ times a week), then you can stick to LHE.

The LHE is more consistent in its 'good'ness. Once you play it once or twice, you pretty much know how its always gonna play.

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There are some very good players that drift through the 5-200. If you don't play it often enough to recognize them, you've got trouble. You also need deeper pockets. One bad hand and you're down $200. It's only $40 to $50 at the 6/12. I think people-reading skills are more essential on the 5-200 as well. There are enough crazy raisers that any of the 8 at your table will put you all-in your first few hands.