Is it wrong to listen to Nazi bands?

[John Spartan]

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As long as you're listening to them for free and they don't receive a dime, and you're not sharing this music with any impressionable people, sure why not.

Btw, Consolidated rocked! Talked to those guys after a few shows, I liked them in thier earlier days before they became so anti-meat. Still, good music and cool folks.

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Yes, they had some good songs. The anti-gun one was great. You Suck (with the Yeastie Girls) was funny. But they were SO extreme in their politics - hard hard hard left.

Not the best example but I remember the intro to one of their songs was a woman saying "If a woman wants an abortion, for any reason, that's a good enough reason." Even as a very liberal 16 year old I found myself thinking "Hang on a minute..."

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You count that as very liberal?

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Yes - the speech on the song was meaning "if a woman wants an abortion - just as she might want a Coca Cola - that's reason enough for her to have one." Of course, I'm in favour of abortion being available as a last resort where necessary. But not as a substitute for contraception, not used without thought, without being aware that it's a weighty thing to do. Not used as a consumer choice.

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i think women should be allowed to abort up to the day of pregnancy, as long as the fetus is still inside the body. and abortions for poor women should be publicly funded. think of how much money this would save in future education and health care costs.

and i'm not liberal. i consider myself a moderate republican, somewhere around the center, with a slight libertarian streak as well. think tom campbell, former congressman from california. his views are very similar to mine.

[Blarg]

Agreed. It seems repulsive and very nazi to me to tell women what to do with their own bodies. All the more so since once the baby is out, the societal attitude and support system si basically, "Go f*ck yourself!" to both mother and child. I can't imagine anything that's less of anyone's business, or less responsible than telling people what to do with their own bodies and then refusing to take responsibility for the results you've legislated. That's a viciously selfish double-whammy, and very reflective of the essentially obliviously and blithely puritanical nature of our society. Replacing "mind your own business" with "f*ck you AND the kid" strikes me as the height of horrifying immorality posed as anything but.

[threeonefour]

-Blarg (and the other's posting similar stuff) given your beliefs do you believe men should be forced to pay child support?

i think the answer is a very clear no if the father 'disowns' the child before s/he is born. of course this is contingent on him being told he is the father, if he is not told then i would give him up until the time he finds out.


i think its VERY philosophically inconsistent to conclude otherwise. its 50% the man's genetic material, he should have his say as future guardian and co-creator of the embryo. its weird that the dude has equal say legally speaking for everything involving the child other than this.

[BrunoThePug]

Nazi Punks [censored] Off - DK

[John Spartan]

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-Blarg (and the other's posting similar stuff) given your beliefs do you believe men should be forced to pay child support?

i think the answer is a very clear no if the father 'disowns' the child before s/he is born. of course this is contingent on him being told he is the father, if he is not told then i would give him up until the time he finds out.


i think its VERY philosophically inconsistent to conclude otherwise. its 50% the man's genetic material, he should have his say as future guardian and co-creator of the embryo. its weird that the dude has equal say legally speaking for everything involving the child other than this.

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yes i do believe men should have to pay child support. they're not the ones who have to carry a baby around for 9 months and because they made a choice to have sex, knowing pregnancy could result, they have to take responsibility for any kids that may result from said sex.

i have a lot of friends who sometimes don't use condoms and they're asking for it.

[daveymck]

This could have been an interesting thread and am surprised it took so long for Skrewdriver etc to get a mention.

A lot of people seem to automatically assume being a Nazi/extreme right winger is all about hating Jews which just isnt the main political drive of a lot of these bands, and probably wasnt the main driver of the rise of the Nazis in Germany neither.

In the late 80's early 90's a few of my mates were into hard core punk and as such got drawn into the anti Nazi league v Nazi/white power oi band fight that seemed to peak in the UK 10 years ago with loads of demos and some riots between the sides.

I just watched the film This is England on the flight home which really touches on the beginnings of that side of the punk movement coming to the fore. Not sure many US people will get all of it, it comes out in the US I think next week, but it really resonated with me growing up in that time and showed how the english flag got hijacked and turned into a negative symbol until relatively recently. Is well worth watching for anyone interested in the Skinhead movement with some very good acting from an unknown cast.

There are some bands that undoubtedly make some good music in both this genre and some of the more extreme white power, church burning, Satanic murdering black metal bands.

Enjoying the music and agreeing with the politics are different things (and this goes with a lot of politically motivated music across the board) it comes down to the individual to question the beliefs behind the stuff they like and enjoy and I dont think this goes just for music some other mediums of media as well.

[daveymck]

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At the time I was into this stuff, in 1994-6 when I was aged 16-18, I was also a big fan of Consolidated, and also Moby - leftwing extremists!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_(band)



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I have just dug out my Business of Punishment CD didnt realise their politics at the time will have to have a relisten as cant even remember what the music sounds like.

[sdfsdf]

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although i dont know much about the band, im pretty sure joy division was a nazi thing an i would argue that almost everyone on here has heard a song or 2 of them.

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Yeah, that Ian Curtis was a regular, uh, Ian Stewart.

At least look into something just a tiny bit before you say you're "pretty sure" about something.

For anyone who doesn't know, Ian Curtis was the lead singer of Joy Division, and Ian Stewart was the lead singer of Skrewdriver.

If you don't know Skrewdriver, you probably don't have much genuine interest in this thread.

You might also look into Crass, Whitehouse, or maybe Rahowa. There is some--ahem--ambiguous subject matter involved.

Hell, throw the entire thread out and just read the works of Peter Sotos. This is probably directly on point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sotos

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lol sotos is pretty funny. pure magazine was ok, a modern day ripoff of sade but still interesting sometimes. afterwards i think he went insane or something, his later work seems to be really repetitive and stupid. i dont know if he's just trying to make some elaborate unfunny joke, but he cant expect anyone to take him seriously with the [censored] he writes in the "books" after pure.

[rutang]

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You should try some Public Enemy, they did it first, and better.

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yeah, but PE aren't as racist, or white hating. Interestingly, a few years ago, Paris wrote an entire PE album, including all of chuck's lyrics.

[TheDudeAbides]

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A lot of people seem to automatically assume being a Nazi/extreme right winger is all about hating Jews which just isnt the main political drive of a lot of these bands, and probably wasnt the main driver of the rise of the Nazis in Germany neither.

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So if it's the secondary reason that's okay?