HAL LUBARSKY. BLIND MAN TO GO ALL THE WAY - Page 7

mtgordon · #61 07-13-2007, 03:05 PM

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What if he won the event and his assistant pulled off his mask "Mission Impossible" style and it was ZeeJustin?

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I'm late to the party but I was definitely expecting something like this on the 1st page.

Jeff76 · #62 07-13-2007, 03:08 PM

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I know that's what they did. That doesn't make it right.

[/ QUOTE ]Making reasonable accommodation's so that a disabled person can play in their tournament isn't right? Even when it does not violate the SPIRIT of the rule you keep bringing up (which is to prevent people from having an unfair advantage in the game)?

What wouldn't be right is excluding people with physical disabilities from a game of psychology and logic. What wouldn't be right is having a society where people who physically are different from the majority are treated like 2nd class citizens and cannot enjoy activities available to the masses without good reason.

And no, citing the "one player per hand" rule (which is in place to prevent people having an unwarranted advantage) is not a good reason, especially when there is no way Lubarsky has an advantage due to the special accommodation's made.

RobAtticus · #63 07-13-2007, 03:22 PM

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I know that's what they did. That doesn't make it right.

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You guys are blowing the edge I've mentioned wayyyy out of proportion. I never said he had a huge edge, or any edge at all for that matter. I simply said that the potential for one is there and IMO the tournament rule of one player to a hand is being compromised here. I never said that the guy shouldn't be permitted to play, I just don't care for the solution.

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Actually, it does make it right. The ADA requires they make reasonable changes to allow him to play. If you built a building that needs to be accessed by wheelchair bound people but did not make ramps, you need to fix your building. You cannot say "Sorry, it would hurt our budget." -- you have to do it.

It's discrimination to not allow him to play because he is blind and is just asking for somebody to act as his eyes. It seems that the information he is getting, besides the hole cards, is at least audible to the people around him. I think if his assistant was giving him information that is not allowed, it would have been brought up by now.

Everyone is getting so upset that he is getting all the same information you guys are allowed to get, and he is probably still missing a lot. His assistant tells him that two people are doing chip tricks, and you guys are all upset? Why is he not allowed to know this but everyone else is? Hal might have heard this information and gone "Cool." or he might have made some judgments about the people, but his assistant did not provide him with those judgments. Hal is a perfectly competent poker player, he knows how to evaluate information just fine.

Austiger · #64 07-13-2007, 03:23 PM

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"i'll call you blind."

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Lon McEchern called and you're due in the green room.

Black Aces 518 · #65 07-13-2007, 03:31 PM

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What if he won the event and his assistant pulled off his mask "Mission Impossible" style and it was ZeeJustin?

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I'm late to the party but I was definitely expecting something like this on the 1st page.

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you really are late to the party if you regged in 05 and this wasn't on the 1st page for you

seriously, it's amazing this guy has the results he has, being one of the blinds on every hand

secretprankster · #66 07-13-2007, 03:47 PM

Over/under on minutes ESPN devotes to this?

Synergistic Explosions · #67 07-13-2007, 04:09 PM

Anyone who doesn't understand the importance of equal access to opportunities for the disabled must be cold hearted snobs.

People with disabilities live a hard life on the most part. Give them a break and try to understand that all they want is an equal chance. They don't want your pity, they just want an equal chance. Having a man whisper the cards into a blind mans ear is not giving him an unfair advantage.

So quit the moaning.

imjoshsizemore · #68 07-13-2007, 04:12 PM

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Over/under on minutes ESPN devotes to this?

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5-10 on one of the regular episodes, prolyl more if he gets further. WHICH I HOPE HE DOES! GO HAL!!

Zetack · #69 07-13-2007, 04:33 PM

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I know that's what they did. That doesn't make it right.

...

You guys are blowing the edge I've mentioned wayyyy out of proportion. I never said he had a huge edge, or any edge at all for that matter. I simply said that the potential for one is there and IMO the tournament rule of one player to a hand is being compromised here. I never said that the guy shouldn't be permitted to play, I just don't care for the solution.

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Actually, it does make it right. The ADA requires they make reasonable changes to allow him to play. If you built a building that needs to be accessed by wheelchair bound people but did not make ramps, you need to fix your building. You cannot say "Sorry, it would hurt our budget." -- you have to do it.
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It's discrimination to not allow him to play because he is blind and is just asking for somebody to act as his eyes. It seems that the information he is getting, besides the hole cards, is at least audible to the people around him. I think if his assistant was giving him information that is not allowed, it would have been brought up by now.
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Everyone is getting so upset that he is getting all the same information you guys are allowed to get, and he is probably still missing a lot. His assistant tells him that two people are doing chip tricks, and you guys are all upset? Why is he not allowed to know this but everyone else is? Hal might have heard this information and gone "Cool." or he might have made some judgments about the people, but his assistant did not provide him with those judgments. Hal is a perfectly competent poker player, he knows how to evaluate information just fine.

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Its been stated a lot in this thread as fact that the ADA requires a resonable accomodation. I'm hoping somebody with some knowledge on the subject can weigh in on the subject and say whether that's true.

My knowledge of the ADA could be described as cursory at best, and non-existant at worst, but I'm under the impression that while it clearly requires that a casino wold have to make reasonable accomodation to allow a disabled person into the building, rooms, showers, gambling area's, etc. I'm not at all clear that it requires reasonable accomodation to play in a poker tournament.

Does anybody know for sure if it does?

--Zetack

Cat · #70 07-13-2007, 04:39 PM

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I would love to be able to enter a tourney and have someone concentrate on player reaction while I crunch numbers. Tell ya what. I'll play you heads up with my eyes closed the whole time but I get to have someone whispering to me the whole time following your rules of what is OK and what is not.
Sound good?

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So u are saying you would play poker better if you were blind and had someone whispering your hole cards to you? Why? Wouldn't you rather be able to see your opponents for yourself and make your own judgments rather than rely on someone else's eyes?

The idea that this is some huge advantage for the blind guy is silly. Bottom line: he cannot play unless someone tells him what cards he has. It is wrong to deny him the chance to play when a simple adjustment ("reasonable accommodation" in ADA terms) can allow him to participate.

And as for the guy who played with his feet... if u lost your arms tomorrow u think you should be banned from poker tournaments because some random opponent thinks feet are "gross"?

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QFT. I just cannot believe how many disgusting and selfish responses there are in this thread. So Hal and the guy who used his feet should just stay at home because they offend you? You are [censored] revolting excuses for human beings. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]