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#61
07-03-2007, 10:20 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
The sentence was commuted and not pardoned. Does this mean that George Bush believes that Scooter Libby is, in fact, guilty of a crime? In his statement he said that he wanted to respect the jury's verdict but thought the fact that Judge Walton (whom he appointed to burnish his tough on crime credentials) was too harsh in going beyond the parole board's recommendation. If this is the case, why not commute 12 months of the sentence and reduce it to 18 months which is squarely in the range suggested by the board. Does he believe that lying to a grand jury and obstruction are crimes that should not require jail time? Will he be commuting the sentence of others who did the same thing or is it only OK if it was done in the course of working for his administration? To me, this is the death knell for the law and order conservative. [/ QUOTE ] YES! Great post. Bush's position is NOT that Libby did not commit a crime (notwithstanding all of the brilliant legal minds here who are arguing otherwise), it is that, in his opinion, the sentence was too harsh. There certainly are cases where a sentence meted out is not proportional to the crime, either as a result of a bonkers judge, a crazy law, and/or an overzealous prosecutor. The kid in Georgia seems to be that case. But this? Participating in a cover-up about blowing the cover of a covert agent who is working on behalf of the USA? In retribution for *her husband's* political views? Disgusting. He didn't get enough time. 
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#62
07-03-2007, 10:22 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I thought I read that Armitage wasn't charged because Libby's actions rendered it basically impossible to charge him with a crime. [/ QUOTE ] No, Fitzgerald knew Armitage was the source of the leak before he asked Libby question uno. Why would it be impossible to charge him? [/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately, there is a burden of proof in a criminal case that is not satisfied by the prosecutor simply saying that he "knows" the defendant did it. But that's a good idea. It would make putting bad guys away so much easier, don'tcha think?
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#63
07-03-2007, 10:27 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
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Anyone who wants to biatch about this should just remember two words..Sandy Burglar. [/ QUOTE ] The hypocrisy of those who support the Republican party is astonishing. On the one hand, Clinton was justifiably impeached for perjury. On the other hand, what Libby did was not even a crime and should not even have resulted in a slap on the wrist. On the one hand, Clinton should never have pardoned Sandy B. On the other hand, Bush did not go far enough by only commuting G. Gordon Libby's sentence. It's like "Who's On First" for politics.
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#64
07-03-2007, 10:30 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Why are there so many people claiming that Libby simply failed to remember something? Obviously, the jury did not agree and thought the lack of memory claim was a crock. [/ QUOTE ] Brilliant arguement....juries are always correct. [/ QUOTE ] Were you there in the courtroom? Did you read the transcripts? What makes you so knowledgeable about the case as to assume the jury got it wrong? Or do you just assume you know better than the jury when the verdict does not fit neatly into your political views? [/ QUOTE ] Was I in the courtroom? No. Just as you werent either I assume, not sure what your point there was....You are allowed an opinion and I am not? I do have the common sense however to know that since Libby was not the source of the leak, and the source was known....going after him is not the right thing to do. One look at what happened here and why would anyone talk to anyone regarding witnessing or knowing anything about a possible crime. One misstatement even accidental, one fact you have wrong, one conversation you forget about...and whammo....you goin to jail. really nothing to do with political views here [/ QUOTE ] You mocked me for pointing out that the jury did not believe his memory was merely faulty. So I naturally ask you how you can be so certain the jury made a mistake. This has nothing to do with whether it was an appropriate use of the special prosecutor's resources to pursue a perjury investigation, when he could not make a case about the leak. I am simply pointing out that people should not be so smug about proclaiming that the jury's verdict is factually incorrect without having an informed opinion about what the actual evidence was.
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#65
07-03-2007, 10:39 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
[YES! Great post. Bush's position is NOT that Libby did not commit a crime (notwithstanding all of the brilliant legal minds here who are arguing otherwise), it is that, in his opinion, the sentence was too harsh. [/ QUOTE ] And your brilliant mind can read others'....oops, it can't. You know what GWB said and did, you don't know what GWB thinks. A pardon in this situation would be very difficult politically, whether GWB believes there was a crime or not. On the other hand we KNOW that SB stole and destroyed classfified documents AND lied to Federal grand jury and got a $10,000 fine and 3 year suspension of his security clearance (as if anyone would spend the political capital to put him in a national security position again). To NOT commute Libby's sentence would have been unconscionable
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#66
07-03-2007, 10:42 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [YES! Great post. Bush's position is NOT that Libby did not commit a crime (notwithstanding all of the brilliant legal minds here who are arguing otherwise), it is that, in his opinion, the sentence was too harsh. [/ QUOTE ] And your brilliant mind can read others'....oops, it can't. You know what GWB said and did, you don't know what GWB thinks. A pardon in this situation would be very difficult politically, whether GWB believes there was a crime or not. On the other hand we KNOW that SB stole and destroyed classfified documents AND lied to Federal grand jury and got a $10,000 fine and 3 year suspension of his security clearance (as if anyone would spend the political capital to put him in a national security position again). To NOT commute Libby's sentence would have been unconscionable [/ QUOTE ] You're basically an "OMG Clinton did it" gimmick account.
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#67
07-03-2007, 10:47 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Why are there so many people claiming that Libby simply failed to remember something? Obviously, the jury did not agree and thought the lack of memory claim was a crock. [/ QUOTE ] Brilliant arguement....juries are always correct. [/ QUOTE ] Were you there in the courtroom? Did you read the transcripts? What makes you so knowledgeable about the case as to assume the jury got it wrong? Or do you just assume you know better than the jury when the verdict does not fit neatly into your political views? [/ QUOTE ] Was I in the courtroom? No. Just as you werent either I assume, not sure what your point there was....You are allowed an opinion and I am not? I do have the common sense however to know that since Libby was not the source of the leak, and the source was known....going after him is not the right thing to do. One look at what happened here and why would anyone talk to anyone regarding witnessing or knowing anything about a possible crime. One misstatement even accidental, one fact you have wrong, one conversation you forget about...and whammo....you goin to jail. really nothing to do with political views here [/ QUOTE ] Remember, George Bush said he wanted to respect the jury's decision. This seems to imply some agreement with their conclusion. Also, even if there was no underlying crime (which, funny enough could not be proven due to Libby's false statements) lying to a grand jury is serious business. The grand jury is the building block of our judicial system. Permitting lying completely undermines that. Also, this was not one accidental statement by Libby. There were multiple counts charged, most of which he was found guilty of, one of which he was not. To me, this shows a jury willing to consider the facts surrounding each count and not just throw the book at someone for an accidental slip. Also, I may be wrong here, but Libby was questioned many times and I am fairly certain was given multiple chances to correct his false statements before Fitzgerald indicted him.
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#68
07-03-2007, 10:47 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [YES! Great post. Bush's position is NOT that Libby did not commit a crime (notwithstanding all of the brilliant legal minds here who are arguing otherwise), it is that, in his opinion, the sentence was too harsh. [/ QUOTE ] And your brilliant mind can read others'....oops, it can't. You know what GWB said and did, you don't know what GWB thinks. A pardon in this situation would be very difficult politically, whether GWB believes there was a crime or not. On the other hand we KNOW that SB stole and destroyed classfified documents AND lied to Federal grand jury and got a $10,000 fine and 3 year suspension of his security clearance (as if anyone would spend the political capital to put him in a national security position again). To NOT commute Libby's sentence would have been unconscionable [/ QUOTE ] You're basically an "OMG Clinton did it" gimmick account. [/ QUOTE ] 5300 posts, Ive mentioned Clinton about 4 times, and Im "basically a...gimmick account"???? STFU and go suck on Nancy Pelosi's botox.
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#70
07-03-2007, 11:24 AM
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Re: Bush to commute Libby sentence
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [YES! Great post. Bush's position is NOT that Libby did not commit a crime (notwithstanding all of the brilliant legal minds here who are arguing otherwise), it is that, in his opinion, the sentence was too harsh. [/ QUOTE ] And your brilliant mind can read others'....oops, it can't. You know what GWB said and did, you don't know what GWB thinks. A pardon in this situation would be very difficult politically, whether GWB believes there was a crime or not. On the other hand we KNOW that SB stole and destroyed classfified documents AND lied to Federal grand jury and got a $10,000 fine and 3 year suspension of his security clearance (as if anyone would spend the political capital to put him in a national security position again). To NOT commute Libby's sentence would have been unconscionable [/ QUOTE ]  This man asked me to tell you that your argument is illogical.
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