Who is your ideal candidate for 08?

[bocablkr]

For starters someone who is:

Pro - environment
Pro - choice
Pro - Universal Health care
Pro - gun control
Pro - stem cell research
Pro - reducing carbon emissions
Pro - protecting social security
Pro - war on terror
Pro - Online Poker
Pro - securing our borders
Pro - immigration reform
Pro - tax reform

[pokerbobo]

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He didn't fake it until he saw the camera. Just part of his "how can we fool em today" mentality.

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True but I don't see this as much different than you or I joking with a friend on the way into a funeral and then feigning great sorrow when we see the family members of the deceased.

Not saying Clinton wasn't a phony like most politicians, just that this particular example isn't all that big a deal IMO.

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This guy was known for his "I feel your pain" emotional crap that really "connected" with the American people. This whole persona was BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLsheeeeeeeeeeoot.

When someone gains respect and admiration from throngs of people and is full of it....I just have a need to expose the phoney in my own little way.

Maybe I change the mind of a Clinton lover or two....Hooray [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Case Closed]

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I am starting to get on the Fred Thompson train...hell the last actor was a pretty good president, IMO.

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And the last president was a pretty good actor.

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nh

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William Jefferson Clinton Emmy award winning performance

This is a vid of WJC leaving Ron Brown's funeral service.
Not good quality, but the best I could find.

You can see he is smiling and laughing with the schmuck next to him, but when Slick Willie sees he is on camera.... cue the tears and pouty lip.

How did so many Americans get fooled into thinking this guy wasn't a big phoney?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnQ0g...ed&search=

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Why do you have to bring up Bill Clinton? Just because someone mentions something negative about Bush it does not mean you have to connect the same insult to Bill Clinton.

[Taso]

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lol, I mentioned Kucinich.

I think the majority of posters here don't like him, because unline the other major Democrat candidates, he voted against the war, and he votes against funding it. No double standards for him - who would want that in a politician?

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Hi, meet Ron Paul, you might have heard about him around these forums.

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As for why anyone would want Giuliani - my main reason is that I feel he is a straight shooter, he doesn't change his policy based on what his party thinks of him, and he doesn't BS around questions. (Notice the similarity with Kucinich? The no BS factor is important to me)

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You make it so easy.

From wiki:

Giuliani and the nine other Republican presidential contenders participated in the first MSNBC 2008 Republican Presidential Candidates Debate on May 3, 2007, held at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. In the non-scientific six part MSNBC online vote following the debate,[176] Giuliani finished in 3rd place (15%). In addition, the vote rated Giuliani #1 (38%) as the candidate "Who avoided the questions?".

"as someone who lived through the attack of September 11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don't think I've heard that before, and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th."

^^probably the best quote ever tbh, just so much gold in there. Even better than the ignorance and trying to flame Ron Paul is his "As someone who lived through the attack on sept 11th" part. Yeah, ok, so you were in the same city when the attacks happened, that means you "lived through the attacks?" Excuse me but were you inside the towers narrowly escaping certain death minutes before they collapsed? Yeah sorry for the massive suffering and sacrifice you went through while you were being attacked, you definitely almost died so I can see why you would say you "lived." I was working in DC on Sept 11th, but I would never say I "lived through the attacks"

Even without all the tons of negative aspects surrounding Giuliani, like his ties to big business and his authoritarianism, I hate him simply because he somehow played off the horror of Sept 11th into fame and a "hero" status.

From wiki:

On December 24, 2001,[108] Time magazine named Giuliani its Person of the Year for 2001.[109] Time observed that, prior to 9/11, the public image of Giuliani had been that of a rigid, self-righteous, ambitious politician.

Yay for national tragedy launching the national political career of a corrupt potential dictator of a prison state. If only New Orleans mayor hadn't sucked during Katrina maybe he could be a "hero" like Giuliani!

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Yes Ron Paul, that's true, but I don't agree with his posistion on some key issues.

As for Giuliani, qoute me the questions he avoided answering.

And he DID live through the 9/11 attacks, he wasn't just in his office, sipping a cafe late'. He was on the ground, telling people where to go for help - he was being a leader and he helped to inspire us all, that's what a leader is supposed to do. He helped New Yorkers get over that tragedy.

[Nonfiction]

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As for Giuliani, qoute me the questions he avoided answering.

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I don't know what questions he avoided answering, I didn't watch the debate, I already know who I am voting for. But why does that matter anyways? I thought he doesn't avoid questions or give BS answers?

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And he DID live through the 9/11 attacks, he wasn't just in his office, sipping a cafe late'. He was on the ground, telling people where to go for help - he was being a leader and he helped to inspire us all, that's what a leader is supposed to do. He helped New Yorkers get over that tragedy.

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Again, from wiki:

Some family members of 9/11 victims have openly criticized Giuliani for the significant communication failures that occurred on that day, believing that the lack of working walkie-talkies put the lives of first responders in significant danger. In December 2006, Sally Regenhard, mother of firefighter Christian Regenhard who died on September 11, and co-founder of the Skyscraper Safety Campaign, vowed to expose the truths of Giuliani's actions on 9/11 before 2008, stating, "I can't see why any 9/11 family member who knows the truth about the failures of the Giuliani administration . . . would not be outraged."[116]

By April of 2007 it was reported that Giuliani had been forced to limit his appearances in New York City due to the increasing protests by family members of 9/11 victims, particularly police, fire and other emergency workers.

A May 14, 2007 New York Times article, "Ground Zero Illness Clouding Giuliani's Legacy," gave the interpretation that thousands of workers at Ground Zero have become sick and that "many regard Mr. Giuliani's triumph of leadership as having come with a human cost." The article reported that Giuiliani seized control of the cleanup of Ground Zero, taking control away from experienced federal agencies, such as the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Army Corps of Engineers and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. He instead handed over responsibility to the "largely unknown" city Department of Design and Contruction. Documents indicate that the Giuliani administration never enforced federal requirements requiring the wearing of respirators. Concurrently, the administration threatened companies with dismissal if cleanup work slowed.[124]

Again, how does "living through 9/11 (which what, like 7-8 million people did) make you a "hero" and an expert on foreign policy? Just because he got some good photo ops of him walking around on the streets looking busy when the towers were on fire? Apparently his "heroic" leadership has caused illness and death amoung thousands of his constituents.

[revots33]

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Some family members of 9/11 victims have openly criticized Giuliani for the significant communication failures that occurred on that day, believing that the lack of working walkie-talkies put the lives of first responders in significant danger. In December 2006, Sally Regenhard, mother of firefighter Christian Regenhard who died on September 11, and co-founder of the Skyscraper Safety Campaign, vowed to expose the truths of Giuliani's actions on 9/11 before 2008, stating, "I can't see why any 9/11 family member who knows the truth about the failures of the Giuliani administration . . . would not be outraged."[116]

By April of 2007 it was reported that Giuliani had been forced to limit his appearances in New York City due to the increasing protests by family members of 9/11 victims, particularly police, fire and other emergency workers.

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Not to minimize their grief but it seems like family members searching for someone to blame, a natural reaction in their anger and loss. It was a totally chaotic situation and of course there might be communication problems given that 2 jet planes had just flown into a busy skyscraper and the entire city was in turmoil. Giuliani did as best as could possibly be expected given the horrible circumstances.

Those who died saving others were unquestionably heroes. But they were killed by Al Qaeda not the mayor's negligence.

[pokerbobo]

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For starters someone who is:

Pro - environment
Pro - choice
Pro - Universal Health care
Pro - gun control
Pro - stem cell research
Pro - reducing carbon emissions
Pro - protecting social security
Pro - war on terror
Pro - Online Poker
Pro - securing our borders
Pro - immigration reform
Pro - tax reform

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Most candidates are pro all of these and anti all of these, depending on who they are speaking to at any given moment

[pokerbobo]

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I am starting to get on the Fred Thompson train...hell the last actor was a pretty good president, IMO.

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And the last president was a pretty good actor.

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nh

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William Jefferson Clinton Emmy award winning performance

This is a vid of WJC leaving Ron Brown's funeral service.
Not good quality, but the best I could find.

You can see he is smiling and laughing with the schmuck next to him, but when Slick Willie sees he is on camera.... cue the tears and pouty lip.

How did so many Americans get fooled into thinking this guy wasn't a big phoney?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnQ0g...ed&search=

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Why do you have to bring up Bill Clinton? Just because someone mentions something negative about Bush it does not mean you have to connect the same insult to Bill Clinton.

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Nobody brought up Bush....Our last president was Clinton, our current president is Bush. (Clinton is being referred to in the last pres being a good actor....I should know, I wrote it)

[UATrewqaz]

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Pro - environment
Pro - choice
Pro - Universal Health care
Pro - gun control
Pro - stem cell research
Pro - reducing carbon emissions
Pro - protecting social security
Pro - war on terror
Pro - Online Poker
Pro - securing our borders
Pro - immigration reform
Pro - tax reform

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Good luck finding a candidate that is this tangled up

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Pro - choice
Pro - stem cell research
Pro - Online Poker

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ok you believe in individual rights, cool

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Pro - gun control

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wait what?

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Pro - Universal Health care
Pro - protecting social security

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Ok you believe in big government social programs

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Pro - tax reform

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Define "reform"? Do you mean cuts? You gotta pay for the big programs ya know. Big government programs require big government tax revenue.

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Pro - environment
Pro - reducing carbon emissions

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Platitudes. You need to to come up with a better way to describe what you want. Who out there would describe themselves as anti-environment or pro raising carbon emissions? Everyone agrees we should have a clean environment and lower carbon emissions, there is disagreement about the best method to achieve it. You specifically say "pro-gun control" not "pro-safety" correctly, one is an empty statement, the other an actual policy position.

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Pro - war on terror
Pro - securing our borders
Pro - immigration reform

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ZOMG RACIST! I would attempt to engage these specific issues but apparently there is no point, anyone who holds these views is ultra racist!!!11
*kidding of course*

[Case Closed]

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I am starting to get on the Fred Thompson train...hell the last actor was a pretty good president, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the last president was a pretty good actor.

[/ QUOTE ]
nh

[/ QUOTE ]

William Jefferson Clinton Emmy award winning performance

This is a vid of WJC leaving Ron Brown's funeral service.
Not good quality, but the best I could find.

You can see he is smiling and laughing with the schmuck next to him, but when Slick Willie sees he is on camera.... cue the tears and pouty lip.

How did so many Americans get fooled into thinking this guy wasn't a big phoney?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnQ0g...ed&search=

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Why do you have to bring up Bill Clinton? Just because someone mentions something negative about Bush it does not mean you have to connect the same insult to Bill Clinton.

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Nobody brought up Bush....Our last president was Clinton, our current president is Bush. (Clinton is being referred to in the last pres being a good actor....I should know, I wrote it)

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Whoops, I am an idiot.