Top Set Mining (TSM) - Page 7

Offspring6767 · #61 05-11-2007, 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One of my biggest leaks is playing underquads out of position in a multiway pot. What I started doing is min-check-raising the button, hopefully getting the pot heads-up and also putting in the minimum when I'm behind. I then make a smallish blocking bet on the next card. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I'll post results when I get a bigger sample size.

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LOL haven't laughed that hard in a while.

HojoMofo · #62 05-11-2007, 08:26 PM

Hyperbole is very funny. Especially when everyone in the thread uses the same joke.

As is sarcasm.

But the gold here is "ITS A TARP"

ocdscale · #63 05-11-2007, 10:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
is this strategy really profitable? is it really a higher chance to get felted with an underset than to stack an opponent with an overpair when u hit a low set? ive never really played higher than 100NL, and usually not higher than 50NL, but in my experience, hitting bottom and middle set is profitable.

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You'll never be a winning player if you can't understand OP.

pcboi · #64 05-29-2007, 08:20 PM

i think this theory is retarded. and i suck at poker

#65 05-29-2007, 08:39 PM

Excellent post,

Here`s an example of why slowplaying quads can be so dangerous

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post10487545

illini43 · #66 05-29-2007, 10:49 PM

I think the OP is onto something...

 OMG TOP SET WOO HOO 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($17.40)
MP2 ($14.75)
MP3 ($21.85)
CO ($13.10)
Button ($10.05)
Hero ($24.25)
BB ($9.90)
UTG ($31.25)
UTG+1 ($23.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.7, 3 folds, Button calls $0.70, Hero calls $0.60, 1 fold.

Flop: ($2.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($2.35) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $1.5, MP1 raises to $16.7, Button folds, Hero calls $15.20.

River: ($35.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $35.75

 Villian showed 66 for the losing set 

 I think I may have played this a little weird, but the $$$ was going in regardless. Middle set = no good [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 ($21.65)
MP1 ($18.25)
MP2 ($42.70)
MP3 ($17.75)
CO ($16.40)
Hero ($23.30)
SB ($10.40)
BB ($11.60)
UTG ($23.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $1, 1 fold, MP3 calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.75.

Flop: ($4.35) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets $2, MP3 folds, Hero calls $2, UTG folds.

Turn: ($8.35) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets $2, Hero calls $2.

River: ($12.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets $2.75, Hero raises to $14, MP1 calls $10.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: $39.60

 Villian calls me a fish for continuing with QJ, and, after using his timebank calls with AA.

fruitypro · #67 10-10-2007, 10:49 AM

If only my opponent had taken your strategy article into account and folded his flopped nut boat, then he wouldn't have got stacked. I think I played the hand too aggressively with second nut quads, I mean I was kinda scared he had KK :-)

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($114.70)
SB ($198)
Hero ($226.25)
UTG ($378.30)
MP ($101.70)
CO ($217.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $7, 3 folds, Hero calls $5.

Flop: ($15) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($19) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $12, MP calls $12.

River: ($43) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $32, MP raises to $80.7 (All-In), Hero calls $48.70.

Final Pot: $204.40

Results:
Hero has 7d 7s (four of a kind, sevens).
MP has Ah Kd (full house, kings full of aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $204.40.

HeroInBlack · #68 10-10-2007, 11:38 AM

I want to know what joyofpoker thinks about this.

Nichlemn · #69 10-19-2007, 08:16 PM

Here's a prime example of how to make disciplined laydowns, with length annotations.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($315)
MP2 ($200)
MP3 ($187)
CO ($230)
Button ($185)
Hero ($200)
BB ($236)
UTG ($108)
UTG+1 ($474)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

There's no point in raising pocket Kings. The only hand that's going to give you any action is a huge favourite. Limit potential losses and increase implied odds by limping.

Flop: ($4) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

I've flopped top set! Betting here would be too obvious as you're not going to get any action, your only hope is to induce a bluff. It also increases the damage of a suckout - sometimes it's better to make a slightly -EV play in order to reduce the trauma of variance.

Turn: ($4) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Uh-oh, we're down to the second nuts *and* the Villain has decided to come out betting! A lot of players recommend folding here, and many of them would think me mad for calling. But I have a read that the Villain can make moves at this pot with a large range of hands, e.g. holding a deuce and counting that I won't be able to call given that 22 is an impossible holding for me. The Villain's range is polarized, however, between a stone cold bluff and the nuts, so there is little point in raising. I call and reevaluate my position on the river.

River: ($8) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5, Hero folds.

Uh oh! The Villain clearly doesn't care about my turn call and has fired out a value bet clearly designed to make my hand pay off his quads. Any other value bet would be extremely thin indeed and it would extremely intimidating to bluff a second barrel on such a scary board. I trust my read and throw my hand in the muck.

Final Pot: $8

Villain shows hand: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Oh well, the Villain had nothing but a busted quad draw. You can't beat yourself up every time you make a good laydown just because you'll occasionally be bluffed. Look on the bright side: I only lost an $8 pot here. If I'd gone crazy with with my marginal hand and ran into quad 2s or if the quad Queen draw had hit, I'd have lost a much bigger pot. That's what good poker players mean when they talk about "winning a small pot or losing a large one".

danjohncochane · #70 10-19-2007, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a prime example of how to make disciplined laydowns, with length annotations.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($315)
MP2 ($200)
MP3 ($187)
CO ($230)
Button ($185)
Hero ($200)
BB ($236)
UTG ($108)
UTG+1 ($474)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

There's no point in raising pocket Kings. The only hand that's going to give you any action is a huge favourite. Limit potential losses and increase implied odds by limping.

Flop: ($4) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

I've flopped top set! Betting here would be too obvious as you're not going to get any action, your only hope is to induce a bluff. It also increases the damage of a suckout - sometimes it's better to make a slightly -EV play in order to reduce the trauma of variance.

Turn: ($4) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Uh-oh, we're down to the second nuts *and* the Villain has decided to come out betting! A lot of players recommend folding here, and many of them would think me mad for calling. But I have a read that the Villain can make moves at this pot with a large range of hands, e.g. holding a deuce and counting that I won't be able to call given that 22 is an impossible holding for me. The Villain's range is polarized, however, between a stone cold bluff and the nuts, so there is little point in raising. I call and reevaluate my position on the river.

River: ($8) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5, Hero folds.

Uh oh! The Villain clearly doesn't care about my turn call and has fired out a value bet clearly designed to make my hand pay off his quads. Any other value bet would be extremely thin indeed and it would extremely intimidating to bluff a second barrel on such a scary board. I trust my read and throw my hand in the muck.

Final Pot: $8

Villain shows hand: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Oh well, the Villain had nothing but a busted quad draw. You can't beat yourself up every time you make a good laydown just because you'll occasionally be bluffed. Look on the bright side: I only lost an $8 pot here. If I'd gone crazy with with my marginal hand and ran into quad 2s or if the quad Queen draw had hit, I'd have lost a much bigger pot. That's what good poker players mean when they talk about "winning a small pot or losing a large one".

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WTF?? That's just not funny...