NL25 Video From MSNLer

[fuze]

I liked the video, kind of the same way I'm trying to approach these games lately.

If you can PM me when you up the next one, that'd be cool [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[phatjeffrey]

Hey can anyone re-up the video to another host(not rapidshare though) ... megaupload isnt working for me.. thx

[JadeRedstone]

Yeah, what I like about your style is that you are sitting in a table and willing to lose a couple of buyin because you KNOW that will allow you to win REAL big pots.
Lol @ people who comment on hand play - this is not about the cards people, this is about situation play and abusing other players.

[Triple Optics]

Here are my thoughts on this video...

The strategy of "stirring up" the table, using your image and playing off of the table dynamics is a good notion in general for poker... However at $25 NL, while there will occasionaly be some TAGs that this strategy would work well against, more often than not the table is full of ultra loose calling stations. Also, alot of the TAGs are multi-tabling at these stakes and will not really be paying enough attention to what you are doing to make this greatly effective against them.

I think this is a good strategy if you want to single table, because it maximizes your reads... and that's the optimal way to play.

While you said this strategy had produced a 15bb/100 result over 30k hands, I'm wondering.... Did you single table for 30k hands? Were you multi-tabling using this strategy? Did you play all 25 NL?

30K hands would take a very long time to play just single tabling, and I think this strategy is heavily realiant on paying close attention to your opponents... So it would be pretty difficult to do effectively playing more than a couple tables.

Like I mentioned before, a majority of players at this limit are excessively loose and make enough poor plays on their own. While this strategy is interesting and most likely superior for higher limits of poker where the players are more skilled, I don't think its optimal for 25 NL... especially if you want to multi-table...

As far as whether it could be more profitable playing like this and single tabling, rather than playing more conventional and 4-8 tabling? I'm pretty sure multi-tabling would be alot more profitable... but who knows. Maybe a skilled enough player could actually minipulate a single table so well that he could achieve a higher hourly rate than a multi tabler. Not likely, but it is interesting to think about.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that players come and go so quickly at micro stakes tables, that by time you double up the short stack a couple of times and build an image with them , they coule be gone before you can take advatange of it.

There's alot of good tips in this video though and I think alot of people will benefit from it. Thanks for posting it.

[Shaqalicious]

this video was awesome, immediately after i watched i tried implementing a few of your strategies and won a couple buyins. i'm going to start single-tabling at the end of sessions and start trying to manipulate the table and screw with people's heads.

i was completely running over this table, showing a bunch of stupid bluffs, then the following hand comes up (bodog 25NL, sorry no clean HH). i raise to 3 on the button with 3h4h. BB flat calls. flop is 25T rainbow. he checks, i bet 3, he calls. turn is A. i bet 3, BB raises to 6, i raise to 12, he calls. river i put him all in, and he mucks AK. he proceeds to berate me in the chat, which was hysterical. TAGs who are "trapping" are great to play with.

[jumbojacks]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are my thoughts on this video...

The strategy of "stirring up" the table, using your image and playing off of the table dynamics is a good notion in general for poker... However at $25 NL, while there will occasionaly be some TAGs that this strategy would work well against, more often than not the table is full of ultra loose calling stations. Also, alot of the TAGs are multi-tabling at these stakes and will not really be paying enough attention to what you are doing to make this greatly effective against them.

I think this is a good strategy if you want to single table, because it maximizes your reads... and that's the optimal way to play.

While you said this strategy had produced a 15bb/100 result over 30k hands, I'm wondering.... Did you single table for 30k hands? Were you multi-tabling using this strategy? Did you play all 25 NL?

30K hands would take a very long time to play just single tabling, and I think this strategy is heavily realiant on paying close attention to your opponents... So it would be pretty difficult to do effectively playing more than a couple tables.

Like I mentioned before, a majority of players at this limit are excessively loose and make enough poor plays on their own. While this strategy is interesting and most likely superior for higher limits of poker where the players are more skilled, I don't think its optimal for 25 NL... especially if you want to multi-table...

As far as whether it could be more profitable playing like this and single tabling, rather than playing more conventional and 4-8 tabling? I'm pretty sure multi-tabling would be alot more profitable... but who knows. Maybe a skilled enough player could actually minipulate a single table so well that he could achieve a higher hourly rate than a multi tabler. Not likely, but it is interesting to think about.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that players come and go so quickly at micro stakes tables, that by time you double up the short stack a couple of times and build an image with them , they coule be gone before you can take advatange of it.

There's alot of good tips in this video though and I think alot of people will benefit from it. Thanks for posting it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't always need TP to win against loose players. His comments on value betting super thin hold very true at this level. The more hands you play and the more you isolate, the more frustrating even loose passive players get and the more chances you have at their stack. You can vbet midpair and take down good sized pots. Also, your thoughts go to show how his style can be so profitable, since that approach itself doesn't give much room for adjustment.

Solid video. I definitely hope for more in the future. You should play higher to get played back at more. Honestly, I think you made no mistakes at all throughout the video, and I would be surprised if you did for the player of your depth and thought process.

[SuitedKingAce]

Cool, can't wait to see it! thanks a lot

[bozzer]

Like most people I really enjoyed this video. It was a really refreshing change of scenery.

I agree with Optics that a decent multitabling TAG is likely to make more money than OP single tabling this strategy, but that doesn't mean we should ignore what the video's saying.

Someone said that you don't need to stir the tables up at 25nl. I don't know about FTP, but at Stars I've been shocked how nitty 25nl is.

I think we all need to look at working this kind of thing into our games. The only time I currently deliberately try and create and manipulate a table image is in BSB battles. Paying more attention to the players and less to my HUD is something I need to work on.

Apart from practice for higher stakes and potentially increasing our winrate now, there's another big benefit to learning this kind of play: sexing up live games!


Things I am going to take from this video:
- Pay more attention to creating a table image rather than simply reacting to the table image I have created due to my cards
- Single table a bit more for fun + learning
- Try and put this into practice in live action

I would love to see more videos from OP (including the first take). I think sticking around at 25nl for another couple of videos would be very helpful before taking on those nasty 3bettors at 50nl.

Thanks very much OP and Everlong.

[monkover]

really looking forward to the video downloading it right now... I´ve been wanting to open up my game for yuite a long time! I think it will be pure spew though in the beginng...

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]
Sweir,

Yes! There are definitely some horrible plays! That's the point buddy! If you view poker as a game of winning pots then I'm probably the uNLer around since I'm playing to lose many of them. As for leaks I dunno pal, I did run at like 15PTBB/100 over about 30k hands playing this style at NL25 and NL50 before trying it at higher stakes. Lol @ feedback being "pretty horrible plays" though, nice way to facilitate discussion, though I can see how it can be like "wtf" and kind of hard to comment on. No it was not just a one off and this is not me saying this is way to play poker, as I said. This is "how-I" not a "how-to" and I definitely don't always play this style. No, this is not a one off, and this was actually the second take because the first take turned out to be 1 hr 40 mins long and the audio got out of sync, but I'm happy to post that one or edit it down. You'd really really like that one, as I stack off with 2nd pair no kicker as advertisement, then stack the same guy like 2 hands later, and get 300BB deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if I came over as a [censored] and I realise that my criticism wasn't constructive. If you make another video I could post e.g's of hands that I would have played differently or talk to you on msn about it (if you have msn?). There was def some good stuff in there though and it was an interesting vid.

The problem with videos like this is that uNLers see its been made by someone who plays mid stakes and suddenly tries to copy the plays and change their game because they think that the play must be good/correct or w/e. I know you say this isn't how to play but how I play but it still doesn't stop them trying, and as you can see there are a few posts in this thread about losing money trying to play a similar style.