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#61
03-05-2007, 04:03 PM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
[ QUOTE ]
we've had this fight on this board a million times. i think completing trash in the SB is actually probably the most common leak of otherwise excellent players, but then again those excellent players are a lot better than me in every other facet of the game, so maybe it isn't a leak? I cant see how it's not terrible, though... [/ QUOTE ] I think the fact that it's live and people are liable to play more passively, go too far with one pair hands, and are much easier to read,changes completing some skeptical hands to + ev. I however play much lower live and against much worse opponents. 
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#62
03-05-2007, 07:24 PM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
[ QUOTE ]
The only argument for completing trash in the SB live is that players will be pretty aware that you threw away your SB when "all the other players" came in. [/ QUOTE ] yeah, completing without looking at your cards is probably the nuts in this situation
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#63
03-05-2007, 10:02 PM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
dont give me this beggining holdem by phil helmuth lecture about completing in the SB with K6o, I promise you in this spot it is correct. plus its live and im [censored] bored, i do plenty of preflop stuff live just to keep myself interested.
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#64
03-05-2007, 10:05 PM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
TWP, are we looking at the preflop completion in a bubble? in this case, I am getting 9-1 preflop. How can calling getting that price be a leak? Beyond that, postflop, it becomes a leak if you arent good postflop. I just dont understand why in the world this topic is even up for debate.
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#65
03-05-2007, 11:20 PM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
that's fine, I have no problem not debating it if all anyone has to say in favor of completing is "I was getting 9-1" which is completely meaningless and "I completed in order to entertain myself" which is fine, but obviously not an EV based argument. As you say, though, it is 'beginning holdem' type stuff, that people don't want to debate on this board.
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#66
03-06-2007, 12:03 AM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
[ QUOTE ]
that's fine, I have no problem not debating it if all anyone has to say in favor of completing is "I was getting 9-1" which is completely meaningless and "I completed in order to entertain myself" which is fine, but obviously not an EV based argument. As you say, though, it is 'beginning holdem' type stuff, that people don't want to debate on this board. [/ QUOTE ] TWP, you're wrong that "9-1" is meaningless: if you only play the hand for two-pair value as though you were set-mining it's easy to see the implied odds being there. I think the real reason people should not complete K6o from the sb is that they end up playing oop with a bad holding and end up getting in more spots like Jason's where he hits a piece of the board and doesn't get enough signals that his hand's no good due to being OOP than they end up cold-decking somebody with K6.
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#67
03-06-2007, 01:08 AM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I folded hand 1, he shows me AK and says good fold... ugh I folded hand 2, gene shows me KcQx and says, this was good, right? ugh He calls, I flip up K6, he laughs and shows me 99. ugh Cali sux [/ QUOTE ] You forgot to mention in your descriptions of the first two opponents that they suck ass hard. [/ QUOTE ] Betting the river with AK in hand 1 is not too bad; you're frozen without a flush, and it's hard to see you being ahead if you don't have a flush.
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#68
03-06-2007, 01:11 AM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
What about his flop play?
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#69
03-06-2007, 11:47 AM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I folded hand 1, he shows me AK and says good fold... ugh I folded hand 2, gene shows me KcQx and says, this was good, right? ugh He calls, I flip up K6, he laughs and shows me 99. ugh Cali sux [/ QUOTE ] You forgot to mention in your descriptions of the first two opponents that they suck ass hard. [/ QUOTE ] Betting the river with AK in hand 1 is not too bad; you're frozen without a flush, and it's hard to see you being ahead if you don't have a flush. [/ QUOTE ] but aside from his immediate hand value, if jason is folding one of the few better hands that falls into that grey zone and isn't an easy call/raise, the guys bet becomes pretty bad and almost an un-intended bluff. EDIT: i also don't understand the guys turn call if he thinks his hand is good, and now his river lead once he improves.
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#70
03-06-2007, 12:38 PM
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Re: 3 commerce hands
[ QUOTE ]
TWP, you're wrong that "9-1" is meaningless [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] it's easy to see the implied odds being there [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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