Is John Edwards a complete retard?

[Al68]

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Libertarianism is the exact opposite, by definition, of anything convenenient for the 'powers that be'.


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you're confusing semantics. the 'powers that be' have the $$$, and the current administration is extremely sympathetic to those with the $$$

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How do you tell the difference between a libertarian and someone who is "on the side of" or "sympathetic to" the rich? Presumably their actions would be identical.

[ShakeZula06]

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I don't care to pay more taxes,

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Fine, do so, just don't make me do so.
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So what exactly am I getting out of the bargain? Where's my "advantage"?? I'm motivated by what's good for society.

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Good. I'm also a utilitarian. We're on the same page. I just weigh force to be a much bigger negative then you.
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IMO, the vast majority of you are motivated by your own wallets

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Everyone including you (if you disagree I'll tell you why) to a certain extend is an egoist. It's nature and it's been very beneficial to the human race when used properly. When people who have the power of government use self interest, it's to the detriment to others because *government doesn't create wealth, it only transfers wealth from one party to another through theft*. Being that me and you apparently agree that the government is run by the rich, who do you think these transfers of wealth are going to end up going to? Regulation enforced by government is paid for by the taxpayer and the mark ups in price from it are passed on to the consumer.

The free market on the other hand, creates wealth and relies on satisfying other parties as it's transactions are voluntary. The government is negative sum (it transfers wealth while eating part of it up to bureaucracy), while the market is positive sum. That's why I support tax cuts, free market healthcare, and no government intervention.
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Who is the nebulous "they" that is campaigning for higher taxes to get something for free?

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Anyone that supports making someone else pay for something they want the government to give them.

[ShakeZula06]

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Libertarianism is the exact opposite, by definition, of anything convenenient for the 'powers that be'.


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you're confusing semantics. the 'powers that be' have the $$$, and the current administration is extremely sympathetic to those with the $$$

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How do you tell the difference between a libertarian and someone who is "on the side of" or "sympathetic to" the rich? Presumably their actions would be identical.

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I would say that less government intervention and more libertarian policys would lead to less inequality for the reasons I noted in my last post.

[West]

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I'm motivated by what's good for society. IMO, the vast majority of you are motivated by your own wallets, and little else,



[/ QUOTE ]Is this a joke? Do you really believe the difference between you and those you disagree with is that your motives are better?

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No, it's not "THE difference", but IMO, it's A difference that is typically true with regards to taxes

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though many of you would undoubtedly try to claim otherwise. [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] No, I'm not going to claim otherwise. I'm not going to lower myself to the level of faulty logic and delusion necessary to believe that motives are relevent to the issue at all.

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No faulty logic or delusion necessary at all. When we talk about tax policy, I would assume that the ultimate objective of that policy is to benefit society. If you believe that is in fact my true motivation with regards to the position I take, then wouldn't you have less reason to question my veracity? However, if greed is my (or yours, as you are apparently admitting) true motivation, then you would have every reason to doubt my credibility when presenting a position that is ostensibly to benefit society - I now have a motive to consciously, or even subconsciously, misrepresent the facts, since what benefits society isn't necessarily the same as what I think benefits me.

[ShakeZula06]

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When we talk about tax policy, I would assume that the ultimate objective of that policy is to benefit society.

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You'd be wrong.

[natedogg]

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I'm motivated by what's good for society. IMO, the vast majority of you are motivated by your own wallets, and little else,

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Is this a joke? Do you really believe the difference between you and those you disagree with is that your motives are better?


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As I suspected.

natedogg

[West]

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When we talk about tax policy, I would assume that the ultimate objective of that policy is to benefit society.

[/ QUOTE ] You'd be wrong.

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In your case, probably, in my case, no

[West]

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government doesn't create wealth, it only transfers wealth from one party to another through theft*.

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i'm afraid I don't see it as theft, and for the record I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any of your money myself

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Being that me and you apparently agree that the government is run by the rich, who do you think these transfers of wealth are going to end up going to?

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when Bush is in power, and I'm sure libertarians helped get him there, the rich

Being that me and you apparently agree that the government is run by the rich, how is it that "they want higher taxes for all so that they can get something for free" (that's what you said)

no need to answer that

[NeBlis]

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when Bush is in power, and I'm sure libertarians helped get him there, the rich

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Yep we were dreamin of Badnaric or someone better. But in the end allot of people chose the lesser of two doucehbags.
And before I have to explain this yet again. this is not an endorsement of GWB, it is a condemnation of your party and every candidate that you have put on the ballot.

NeBlis

edit: to include possible exeption Paul Tsongas, but only for The Concord Coalition.

[ShakeZula06]

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i'm afraid I don't see it as theft, and for the record I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any of your money myself


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How is it not theft? Even Moorobot admits it is.
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when Bush is in power, and I'm sure libertarians helped get him there in , the rich

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Wait, what? You're calling libertarians the rich? lol.

Maybe libertarians helped him get there in 2000 because they believed him when he said he supported small government and was against nation building, but if any libertarian ever tells you he thinks Bush is one, make sure to hit him in the face for not even understanding his own policies. And if you think Bush supports a libertarian agenda you need to find out what libertarians support and run that against what Bush actually does.
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how is it that "they want higher taxes for all so that they can get something for free" (that's what you said)

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Airport regulations, gas substization, regulations that favor big business over eutreaprenueurs and small business, no bid contracts, bridges to nowhere, overpriced military equipment.

More then one type of person supports high taxes. The rich that can influence government like it for the kick backs. Others like it because they think that since they want something everyone else should provide it for them (social security, medicare, welfare, healthcare, etc).