Jman's River c/r Hand of the Week (300/600nl)

[Jman28]

I called. He had 22.

In hindsight, I don't think he is ever calling with a worse hand. However, I don't think he can have a better hand except for 88 or 77. I think the call of his shove is actually standard in this spot, but the bet itself has no value except for inducing the c/r.

I agree with those who said that a c/r is his only river play with a big hand, and I agree, but I don't think he can have a big hand besides 77 with the flop action. I think an ace bets the river too almost all the time.

So yeah. I think betting may have been a mistake or is marginal at best, but calling was not.

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]

I almost wish that 7 hadnt come in lou of like a deuce due to the gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]


lol, whoops.

NH jman.

-JP

[fslexcduck]

why cant he have a 9 here?

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
why cant he have a 9 here?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's been checkraising so many flops. Like, he rarely check called a flop against me. c/c'ing a big hand here on a paired board, when some turn cards kill his action, with his image would be foolish and not something he would do.

[fslexcduck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why cant he have a 9 here?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's been checkraising so many flops. Like, he rarely check called a flop against me. c/c'ing a big hand here on a paired board, when some turn cards kill his action, with his image would be foolish and not something he would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

well if that's your read and you're so sure about it, that would obviously make this an instacall... right? i mean, that's obviously what it comes down to...

of course he is god so crai with an ace for value would be soooooo sick. but yeah if u dont think hes capable of that and you dont think he slowplays a big hand, you're right, 77 or nothing.

[kiika]

The riverbet is completely unnecessary. He wont call you with anything worse, you say that yourself at least, and now you are facing a tough decision whether to call the allin or not. If you bet in order to induce the c/r on the river, why are you posting this asking whether you should call river or not? Either, you bet in order to induce a bluff and then you don't post asking whether to call or not, or you bet for value. It doesn't seem to be neither of these, it just looks like you got greedy on the river.

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why cant he have a 9 here?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's been checkraising so many flops. Like, he rarely check called a flop against me. c/c'ing a big hand here on a paired board, when some turn cards kill his action, with his image would be foolish and not something he would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

well if that's your read and you're so sure about it, that would obviously make this an instacall... right? i mean, that's obviously what it comes down to...

of course he is god so crai with an ace for value would be soooooo sick. but yeah if u dont think hes capable of that and you dont think he slowplays a big hand, you're right, 77 or nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I suppose a lot of it is read based, but it's not like I have much more info than I'm giving. I didnt pick up anything in the way of timing tells, and I dont think the flow of the match was anything particularly special.

I just don't think it'd be smart for him to slowplay this flop. I mean, he's been c/r'ing so often. Part of the reason for that is to win pots, and the other is to setup for times like this when he can get paid off with a big hand. Theres no reason for me to give him much credit when he c/r's this flop which is why I think he would do it if he wanted action. I guess he could just c/c 86 because of his image, planning to take it away on a later street, but I also think that's unlikely.

Theres still the possibility of 88 which would be so sick, but I think it's likely enough that he's bluffing to make it a clear call.

There's always the chance that he knows what I'm thinking as well as I do, and knows that I call this c/r with any hand I vb, because he is Antonius. That thought is a little scary.

[El Diablo]

J,

If you felt he was more aware of your play (and willingness to make calls like this and the other one I mentioned), then I like your call a lot less. Since you didn't think that was the case, I think it was fine.

[derosnec]

(warning, very small stakes player asking a question; not for the faint of heart or those with a blood pressure condition)


So Im curious as to why he c/r'd you with 22. I'm trying to understand the river c/r as a move in general.

Is it because he thought twos had showdown value, then when you bet he figures that showdown value now has gone out the window and that you are valuebetting a medium hand often enough that the c/r gets you to fold x amount of times?

[restrikt]

[ QUOTE ]
(warning, very small stakes player asking a question; not for the faint of heart or those with a blood pressure condition)


So Im curious as to why he c/r'd you with 22. I'm trying to understand the river c/r as a move in general.

Is it because he thought twos had showdown value, then when you bet he figures that showdown value now has gone out the window and that you are valuebetting a medium hand often enough that the c/r gets you to fold x amount of times?

[/ QUOTE ]


I think it went something like this.

Antonius: Might as well check my 22.

Jman: Gotta thinly value bet my pair of 7's. Cuz Antonius is a nit and will call me with 22.

Antonius: Who does this guy think he is? Trying to value bet Mr. Antonius with a marginal hand? I'm Antonius, so if I push, he HAS to fold. No one calls Antonius, not even if he has the nuts.

Jman: OGMOGMGOMG WHAT THE FK DID I DO? HE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO PUSH! ...... ...... everyone expects Antonius to win, so if I call and lose, who cares... but if I call and win... everyone will think I'm the next aba. Plus I'im a ship it holla balla.... err..er.... CALL!l!l!!l!l