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#61
11-20-2006, 06:23 PM
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Re: UCLA Taser Incident - Quoted Dialogue From Video
[ QUOTE ]
This conduct was clearly over the line and these officers should be punished. Yes, the student was annoying and should have shut the hell up and left. However, that's not the issue. The issue is how far the police should go when someone does not follow orders. Common sense tells me this situation could have been resolved with less violence - whether or not anyone here is involved with law enforcement is irrelevant. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't part of the issue that by being an a hole he put himself in a situation where someone else's bad judgement could hurt him? If I call a fat chick fat, she would probably slap me in the face. Is it an overreaction? Yes. Would I have deserved it? probably. Would my face have been in less pain had I shut my big mouth? For sure. I am sick and tired of people taking ridiculous stands, acting like idiots, then ultimately victimize themselves. Keep your nose clean and you won't have these problems. 
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#63
11-21-2006, 01:31 AM
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Al Dente
[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever been a police officer? The level of stress that they face on an everyday basis, combined with a lack of respect for their contributions, and not very high levels of pay, don't really endear them to their positions. <font color="white"> . </font> It's not easy working in any of these fields. You face a lot of crap fairly regularly. No matter how calm of an individual you are, when you are placed in constant stressful situations on a daily basis, it will wear you down. <font color="white"> . </font> It's not fun going to the same house for the third time that week to listen to some white trash domestic dispute, and it's not fun worrying if the window of the house you just passed contains an enemy combatant who's going to plug you once you're in their line of site. [/ QUOTE ] If they cannot handle it, then they should resign from the job. Or be fired from it. Simple as that. Mistakes can happen and human beings will act like human beings. But the job requires certain things of the individual doing it -- and among those things is a higher-than-usual tolerance for asses, such as for example the guy in the library. You are not Dirty Harry. You are a cop. Dirty Harry was a bad cop. You would not want to have Dirty Harrys in your face. (Hint: The vast majority of people, including you, people, are innocent. Think about it.) [ QUOTE ] The same thing with people on the front lines in the military. They are dealing with situations that everyday schmoes like us don't have to see. [/ QUOTE ] The military is trained and commissioned to kill. The military's mission is worlds apart from the police's mission. Which, incidentally, is one of the reasons that Dubya's war in Iraq is so f*cked up: After disbanding the Iraqi military and the police (a bunch of neo-cons on these very forums were idiotically applauding at the time the "anti-Baath purging"), the American military is called upon to perform cop duties! What a baloney recipe for disaster. Mickey Brausch
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#64
11-21-2006, 01:38 AM
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It\'s a free country (or is it?)
[ QUOTE ]
If I call a fat chick fat, she would probably slap me in the face. Is it an overreaction? Yes. Would I have deserved it? probably. Would my face have been in less pain had I shut my big mouth? For sure. [/ QUOTE ]While it would be stupid of me to call a cop names, calling a cop names does NOT entitle the cop to physically abuse or torture me. He can arrest me, of course, if my behavior constitutes a criminal offense. But he cannot behave like every other guy in the street -- not when he is a cop. Do you see why ? [ QUOTE ] I am sick and tired of people taking ridiculous stands, acting like idiots, then ultimately victimize themselves. Keep your nose clean and you won't have these problems. [/ QUOTE ]Once more, without feeling: It is NOT the cops' job to punish people for being asses. In a western democracy, being an ass is your right. Being loud, obnoxious or dissenting is every citizen's right. "Keep you nose clean and you'll be alright WITH THE POLICE" is an advice appropriate for an authoritarian or police state, not for a western democracy. You can punch that obnoxious citizen in the face, if you feel like it, of course, but be ready to face the consequences. Especially the legal ones. Especially when you're a cop. Mickey Brausch
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#65
11-21-2006, 02:01 AM
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Re: It\'s a free country (or is it?)
"Being loud, obnoxious or dissenting is every citizen's right."
No, it isnt. No how many times you say it, that doesnt make it true. Read the Constitution sometime.
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#66
11-21-2006, 02:09 AM
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Re: It\'s a free country (or is it?)
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"Being loud, obnoxious or dissenting is every citizen's right." No, it isnt. No how many times you say it, that doesnt make it true. Read the Constitution sometime. [/ QUOTE ] The constitution isn't an exhaustive list of your rights.
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#67
11-21-2006, 02:13 AM
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Re: It\'s a free country (or is it?)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] "Being loud, obnoxious or dissenting is every citizen's right." No, it isnt. No how many times you say it, that doesnt make it true. Read the Constitution sometime. [/ QUOTE ] The constitution isn't an exhaustive list of your rights. [/ QUOTE ] I never said it was, but that is the only possible context that MickeyMouse could have meant it, since it clearly isnt true on the state and local level.
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#68
11-21-2006, 09:18 AM
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Re: It\'s a free country (or is it?)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] "Being loud, obnoxious or dissenting is every citizen's right." No, it isnt. No how many times you say it, that doesnt make it true. Read the Constitution sometime. [/ QUOTE ] The constitution isn't an exhaustive list of your rights. [/ QUOTE ] I never said it was, but that is the only possible context that MickeyMouse could have meant it, since it clearly isnt true on the state and local level. [/ QUOTE ] Whether or not someone has the right to be loud, obnoxious and dissenting has no bearing on whether the cops have (or should have) the right to inflict physical punishment. If we allow police to inflict physical punishment as a means of gaining compliance, why not go a little further and allow them to administrate public canings for really, really loud obnoxious behavior or for those who are very, very obstinate? A group of police can easily remove an individual from the premises without using pain as a tool. There is simply no need for tasing, arm-twisting, punching, kicking, or public caning of the individual.
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#69
11-21-2006, 09:30 AM
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Re: UCLA Taser Incident - Quoted Dialogue From Video
[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever been a police officer? I've worked with police, fire, EMS and hospital staff, and I speak from experience when I say that many people in these fields of work eventually just burn out. The level of stress that they face on an everyday basis, combined with a lack of respect for their contributions, and not very high levels of pay, don't really endear them to their positions. It's not easy working in any of these fields. You face a lot of crap fairly regularly. I am not saying I condone what happened in that instance. I believe the police could have just carried the kid out instead of resorting to a taser. But no matter how calm of an individual you are, when you are placed in constant stressful situations on a daily basis, it will wear you down. The same thing with people on the front lines in the military. They are dealing with situations that everyday schmoes like us don't have to see. It's not fun going to the same house for the third time that week to listen to some white trash domestic dispute, and it's not fun worrying if the window of the house you just passed contains an enemy combatant who's going to plug you once you're in their line of site. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, their job involves a lot of pressures, and for some that can lead to snapping in frustration or rage. Sort of like being a poker player, eh? God can it be frustrating. Well...if the professional policeman, fireman, or poker player has any sort of significant tilt problem then may I humbly suggest that they are in the wrong line of work given their emotional makeup, and that they should consider finding another profession. It's even more important that professional police officers with tilt problems (as compared to professional poker players with tilt problems) find another profession, because their tilt has the potential to impact and hurt more people than does a poker player's tilt.
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#70
11-21-2006, 10:18 AM
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Re: It\'s a free country (or is it?)
[ QUOTE ]
If we allow police to inflict physical punishment as a means of gaining compliance, [/ QUOTE ] The policy of most major police departments is to use tasers for precisely that purpose, iirc.
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