Ethical or not?

[PartyGirlUK]

[ QUOTE ]
You cant recieve advice while the hand is still in play even if your buddy folded.

Say you have 44 and are getting 15:1 to flop a set on the flop. You ask your buddy if you should call with your 44. He of course responds that you should fold because he folded 44 preflop.

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As I said earlier, I'm vehemently against him revealing what cards he folded to me while I am still in the hand.

[Keepitsimple]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You cant recieve advice while the hand is still in play even if your buddy folded.

Say you have 44 and are getting 15:1 to flop a set on the flop. You ask your buddy if you should call with your 44. He of course responds that you should fold because he folded 44 preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said earlier, I'm vehemently against him revealing what cards he folded to me while I am still in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
sure, but will he advice you how he would have done had he not been in the hand??

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
B) You discuss strategy DURING the play of a hand

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely not.

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Only because he's at the same table or are you saying online poker should be strictly 1 hand 1 player? Because the second version would be very far from the reality of things.

[samoleus]

Knet, I think that you can share reads and patterns on your opponents. However, talking strategy about the play of a hand while it is in progress or playing your opponent differently in any way would be a significant breach of ethics.

[B Buddy]

[ QUOTE ]
For guys that played the party 10/20 and 25/50, I know there were a lot of us in this thread who did, how much collusion do you actually think occurred? I played a ton of party 10/20 NL and honestly, very very rarely suspected any sort of collusion. Maybe I'm naive, what are your thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

The obvious cheating that went on was DP abuse. There was a lot of that. Collusion - something obvious would likely be reported - so any regulars that were doing that would have been likely sharing hole cards and no way we'd notice or if advice was being given during hands.

Based on the amount of blatant DP abuse going on, there seemed to be a lot of dishonest people at the tables. MOst of that abuse was not by regulars, however. Of course that type of abuse would have been obvious.

For sharing of hole cards or giving advice during a hand, we would not know about like I was saying, unless they offered and it was refused and reported it, or site caught it. Sharing of hole cards would have to be caught on Party Poker's end, and I don't know of anybody getting caught or what they were doing to detect it.

Edit: after all that, my guestimate is it probably occurred a little (sharing hole cards or giving advice during hand) but I doubt it was signifiant - sharing of hole cards would be my biggest concern for potential abuse. cheating I witnessed was DP cheating and not by any of the regular players.

Edit 2 - Stars response to my question on this was a list of rules and this:

"While I cannot go into detail on how we detect and prevent collusion, I
can tell you that PokerStars is in the forefront in this area. We work
diligently to ensure the games are kept safe and fun for all."

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/policies/

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/rules/

[B Buddy]

Thank you for your e-mail.

Any communications over instant messengers or phones with players on
the
same table are strictly prohibited. You would be correct to assume that
any activity that is not allowed in brick and mortar casinos would also
be considered illegal in online gambling. Just as one wouldn't be
allowed to use cell phones on the table, you can consider any private
communication between players at the table to be unethical and against
the rules.

Finally, with regards to enforcement, I can understand your concern, as
we cannot prevent our players from talking to one another over the
phone. We do take cheating very seriously on our site. We investigate
each and every complaint into real money collusion that comes across
our
desks. We also spend a great deal of time looking for active leads into
possible collusion cases.

When looking into collusion, keep in mind that we can review each and
every hand history that has been played on our site - ever. We look for
a wide variety of collusionary tactics such as pot building, chip
dumping and whip-sawing, and we have an excellent set of tools that we
can use to find other information (such as where people are logging in
from geographically, who they share computers or accounts with, and so
on).

While the great majority of our players are honest, and would never
engage in such activities, there are always a few who try and take
advantage of extra information, and collude. While this is a small
minority, we are constantly on the lookout for such play. When we
conduct a formal investigation, however, these cheats become revealed
very quickly through their unnatural play patterns, and become obvious
to investigators who are observing their play with al cards revealed.

I hope this clarifies any questions or concerns that you may have had.
If there is anything else that I can assist you with, please let us
know.

Regards,

Shujiro
Full Tilt Poker Team


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Original Message Follows:
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Hi,
I was reading a post on 2 + 2 forum - section High stakes NL about
people using AIM when playing the same table. I do not and have not
ever done this, and did not realize it was going on so much or was
permitted. I am not saying it should or shold not be premitted, just
that I was not aware of it.

A. Is this legal? What about talking on phone?

B. What are they techncially allowed to discuss and not discuss?

C. I am sure sharing of hole cards is not permitted. How many people
have you guys caught sharing hole cards, and what measures are being
taken to detect this.

Thanks