****Official Tigers versus Oakland Thread*****

[Chris Daddy Cool]

just got back from the game.

so frustrating. zito has his worst start in his postseason career and robertson had baserunners on him left and right, but got the timely double plays. also in the 4th with runners on 2nd and 3rd with no out, he strikes out the next 3 batters. just sick.

i wanted to see zumaya's fastball in person, and i am suprised that leyland brought him in there 5-0. he does indeed throw amazingly hard, maxing out at 102 mph.

to sum it all up. zito got rocked. a's had baserunners in every single inning and couldn't produce. 5-1.

hopefully loiza steps up big vs verlander tommorow. he's already beaten him once at oakland this season, lets hope he can do it again.

[Boris]

Well that sucked. This might have been one the most frustrating games I've even attended. The A's scored about 12 Sklansky runs yet only came up with one run. I think I'll retire my Barry Zito signature tie.

[WLVRYN]

Zumaya was a starter for his entire career until this season, so using him to pitch an inning or two in consecutive games should not be a big deal. Also, Leyland's done it all year long, so its not like this is new.

Robertson needed to be out of that game, and I dont trust anyone else in the pen other than Zumaya, Rodney and Jones (and Walker, who didnt pitch), and I dont think Leyland does either. Grilli and Ledezma will likely only pitch if the Tigers are behind.

WRT to Jones closing over Zumaya and Rodney, both Z and R are prone to walking people and having some bad brain farts out there. Jones is steady and throws strikes (and still throws in the low 90's, which is nothing to sneeze at). I think Leyland is giving the edge to experience vs raw talent at the moment, and its worked all season, so I hope he doesnt change anything.

[AllinDan]

god that game was terrible. better luck tomorrow!

[Mike E. Vegas]

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god that game was awesome.

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[Hornacek]

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god that game was awesome.

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[bonds]

Interesting, but I can't say that I agree with your analysis in its entirety. I can see two sound reasons for Leyland using his best relievers:

1. Psychological. The Tigers are still an inexperienced team and keeping momentum is critical. They really caught a break in the ALDS with the game 2 rainout -- it allowed them to regroup mentally.

In yesterday's game, as you know, the A's had runners on base constantly. If Leyland brings in Miner or Ledezma and they let Oakland come back and win, it dramatically (if not quantifiably) increases the chances that the Tigers lay down and die.

They needed the win.

2. Keeping the guys sharp. Rest for relievers is all well and good, but there's something to be said for pitching regularly too. Pitchers get rusty -- just look at how much Verlander struggled at the end of the regular season when he got significant rest. Rodney really needed the work. Zumaya is a horse, and pitching him an inning in game 1 won't make him unavailable for game 2 - it would just limit him to no more than one inning.

The one thing that I feared most that Leyland *didn't* do was get Walker up every other inning. When Robertson pitched his way out of trouble, Walker sat down and didn't get the call again. If there's one weakness this bullpen has, it's the lack of a dependable lefty other than Walker.

[crockpot]

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Zumaya is a horse, and pitching him an inning in game 1 won't make him unavailable for game 2 - it would just limit him to no more than one inning.

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without actually calculating it, there has to be an 80% or greater chance that zumaya could have more of an impact in his second inning of tonight's game than he had last night. even if they're down three runs, an extra zumaya inning has more value in game 2 than it did tuesday. and what if they're up by 1 or tied, and they have to go to ledezma or grilli? it's not like it's a rare occurrence to play a close game between two low-scoring, good-pitching teams in the playoffs.

if miner comes in and lets the first two guys on base, fine, bring in zumaya then. hell, you can even bring him in only if the first guy reaches base if you want to be really extra cautious. you have cost yourself virtually nothing in this situation, and often will receive an extra inning of zumaya's services the next night, or later in the series, when it really matters.

ken macha, who is largely a puppet of the smartest general manager in baseball, left his two best relievers out of yesterday's game. it was just as close a game for him as it was for leyland. no one has ever gotten rich telling billy beane he is bad at running his baseball team.

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They really caught a break in the ALDS with the game 2 rainout -- it allowed them to regroup mentally.

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this is what really disturbs me. in game 3 of the ALDS, leyland knew his two best relievers had thrown yesterday and could very well need to throw the next two days with no off-days in between (thanks to the rainout), yet he went to both of them anyway in a six-run game with two outs in the eighth. what is he going to do if the tigers pull ahead by 6 tonight, or in game 3? probably go to zumaya and jones again, further reducing their availability.

[WLVRYN]

There is a day off tomorrow, and there's a pretty good chance of rain/snow here on Friday, so I wont be too worried if those guys all pitch again today since they'll for sure get a day off and maybe more. Not to mention the fact that NateRob is the Tigers worst starter and was in trouble every inning, with the potential for a big inning just one hit away. There's also a pretty decent chance that they wont need 4 innings of bullpen time the next couple of days with Verlander, Rogers and Bonderman going.

As for Oakland not putting in their best relievers when behind, there's no way that Leyland would do that either. That's when Grilli and Ledezma get in. I think you might want to give some credit to the manager of the year and the guy that turned a 90 loss team into a 95 win team the span of a year, and let him do what he's done all season.

As someone in the Tigers/Yankees thread pointed out, putting Zumaya in to face ARod and blowing him away was pretty brilliant managing IMHO.

[TheHip41]

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As someone in the Tigers/Yankees thread pointed out, putting Zumaya in to face ARod and blowing him away was pretty brilliant managing IMHO.

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I think I mentioned this. Bringing in Zoom to throw a fast high fast ball at A-rod with a 5 run lead was awesome. He didn't get a hit after that at bat. Not like he had a bunch before though :O)