Pride OWGP 9/10

[jmillerdls]

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Now someone answer me this. Why doesn't one of the second tier heavyweights (Fedor's brother, Kharitonov, etc.) just head over to the UFC. Those guys would completely obliterate the competition over there. I think I'd rather be a champion than forever lower than the big 4...

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Pretty sure that Pride pays much more than UFC. I know that's true for the top fighters (Cro Cop I think got $200K+ for tonight), so I would assume it's also true for the lower tier fighters.

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The top guys in the UFC, i.e. Chuck, Tito, Randy, Hughes make a comparable amount to the top guys in Pride. The pay is structured differently, while Pride guys are generally paid a fixed amount plus a bonus for winning, the big names in the UFC usually get a piece of the PPV/Gate. Dana White has said a few times that fighters in the biggest UFC fights have been paid over 1M after all that was figured in.

2nd tier and lower fighters get much much less in the UFC, and Americans don't care if your Fedor's brother or what have you, the 2nd tier Pride HWs would all be completely unknown, and would probably start out at like 10k/10K or something for thier first few fights, thats probably 1/3-1/4 of what they make in Pride. They'd also lose thier Japanese sponsors, and it would take some time to build a name for themselves and get US sponsors. So while they would definetly have a chance to build themselved up to the Chuck level, it would take a few years and its not guaranteed to ever happen. Right now there's no incentive for the UFC to build up thier HW division, they're making money hand over fist doing what they are doing, so they're not going out of their way to increase the number of quality fighters in the stable. The Pride show in Vegas in October could start to change that if it begins to eat into UFC market/mind share, but until then they're going to stick with the TUF/Spike strategy thats worked for them so well the past 2 years.

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Well, I'd like to counter, but all of this seems more than valid. Hard to blame the UFC when they have brought the orginization to such popularity...but it is a bit disappointing to me for them to have one division that is so embarrassing...and all the other divisions with unbeatable champions (minus Franklyn).

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out though. I've much preferred Pride events, including Bushido events to the UFC for several years now...but that has not stopped me from watching UFC events (and betting them).

[BriMc]

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Now someone answer me this. Why doesn't one of the second tier heavyweights (Fedor's brother, Kharitonov, etc.) just head over to the UFC. Those guys would completely obliterate the competition over there. I think I'd rather be a champion than forever lower than the big 4...

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Pretty sure that Pride pays much more than UFC. I know that's true for the top fighters (Cro Cop I think got $200K+ for tonight), so I would assume it's also true for the lower tier fighters.

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The top guys in the UFC, i.e. Chuck, Tito, Randy, Hughes make a comparable amount to the top guys in Pride. The pay is structured differently, while Pride guys are generally paid a fixed amount plus a bonus for winning, the big names in the UFC usually get a piece of the PPV/Gate. Dana White has said a few times that fighters in the biggest UFC fights have been paid over 1M after all that was figured in.

2nd tier and lower fighters get much much less in the UFC, and Americans don't care if your Fedor's brother or what have you, the 2nd tier Pride HWs would all be completely unknown, and would probably start out at like 10k/10K or something for thier first few fights, thats probably 1/3-1/4 of what they make in Pride. They'd also lose thier Japanese sponsors, and it would take some time to build a name for themselves and get US sponsors. So while they would definetly have a chance to build themselved up to the Chuck level, it would take a few years and its not guaranteed to ever happen. Right now there's no incentive for the UFC to build up thier HW division, they're making money hand over fist doing what they are doing, so they're not going out of their way to increase the number of quality fighters in the stable. The Pride show in Vegas in October could start to change that if it begins to eat into UFC market/mind share, but until then they're going to stick with the TUF/Spike strategy thats worked for them so well the past 2 years.

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Well, I'd like to counter, but all of this seems more than valid. Hard to blame the UFC when they have brought the orginization to such popularity...but it is a bit disappointing to me for them to have one division that is so embarrassing...and all the other divisions with unbeatable champions (minus Franklyn).

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out though. I've much preferred Pride events, including Bushido events to the UFC for several years now...but that has not stopped me from watching UFC events (and betting them).

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From a serious fan's perspective Pride is way better than the UFC to watch, much more compelling, beter fighters, better fights. From a casual fan's perspective, WWE and possibly boxing was all they knew up until TUF made them remember that ultimate fighting thing and that funny looking Gracie guy from 15 years ago. The UFC has done a masterful job of bringing those people in and showing them a product that is clearly superior to WWE and Boxing. The problem I think is that Dana wants to have control over the action the way that Vince does in the WWE. I'm not saying he wants to put on "works" but he doesn't want his meal tickets to get tarnished, he's a business genius in that way. He's able to build fighters up into huge money makers that way with minimal risk, effectively teaching the fans that the UFC fighters are the best in the world, while not actually having to pay for many of the best fighters in the world. Look at how he protected Tito when he was the golden boy. Look at how he's only let Chuck fight people he's 90% to beat instead of going and getting Rampage or Arona. He was very smart to try to make the Silva fight, another fighter who is a great matchup for Chuck, and will elevate his status without much risk.

The Pride show at the T&M has the chance to change all that, the problem with Pride and the casual fan is that it doesn't have any exposure here. I love MMA and I don't even get most of thier PPV's cause I just can bring myself to buy a taped event. If the october show is succesful and they start having regular events here, I'll be very excited. I'm actually going to be in LV that weekend, I'm seriously thinking of droping 1500 on some ringside seats, I'm just waiting to see the rest of the card first.

[swope]

there are so many factors why fighters in japanese orgs arent rushing to compete in the states.

first and formost is money, of course. as previously said, they would lose their japanese sponsors and have to take about an 80% paycut. this is also why fighters in k1/pride tend to be stronger than fighters in the states imo; if a fighter fights twice a year in japan, his rent and bills are paid for that entire year, leaving him time to train full time. also, pride/k1 routinely sell out the biggest arenas in japan. they make superbowl money off mma out there, so fighters get paid superbowl salaries.

then there is culture. in japan, these guys are celebrities , and as famous as any pro golfer or quarterback in the states is. mma in the states is still largely viewed as a glorified toughman contest by the majority of people and honestly the crowds do little to dispell that. anyone remember baroni getting boo'd by the audience after getting choked out twice in 2 minutes by pete sell? that type of sh!t doesnt happen in japan. also, japanese mma audiences grow up practicing judo etc the same way US audiences grow up practicing football. when they see a fighter move from guard to side mount, they know *exactly* what they are looking at and what its importance is. in the states, 98% of the audience just sees two people wrigglin' around on the ground. granted, people *are* becoming more educated in the states but we still have a long way to go.

also a factor; steroids arent illegal in japan. this means that when a fighter is injured there, they can cycle to promote fast healing, and generally always show up for a fight ready to put on a superhuman effort. they would have to stop cycling for at least a year or two before they could piss clean in the states. boldenone, which stephen bonnar tested positive for after fighting griffin and is used often to speed up healing, stays in the system for 18 months for example.

[Thremp]

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also a factor; steroids arent illegal in japan. this means that when a fighter is injured there, they can cycle to promote fast healing, and generally always show up for a fight ready to put on a superhuman effort. they would have to stop cycling for at least a year or two before they could piss clean in the states. boldenone, which stephen bonnar tested positive for after fighting griffin and is used often to speed up healing, stays in the system for 18 months for example.

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This is changing rapidly. I've heard rumors of body cleansers (not GNC junk), that are able to bind and change this stuff. Not really related... But its effects on sports could be insane. Almost any roid you wanna cycle gone in 2 weeks?