USA 5th in latest FIFA rankings

[KDawg]

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I think from all the players mentioned Howard is the only one that was actually used in a top european team, but he was always criticized and had to be replaced so I wouldn't be too proud of him. You guys you'll need Adu to move to Barça/Milan/Chelsea,etc to gain some credibility in this sense.

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beasley starts for PSV, so its not just howard. As far as the howard thing at manU, I'd be starting Van Der Saar over almost every keeper in the world to begin with so thats not too bad of a knock. Howard also got crap for defense for the most part on the blunders that got credited to him. That goal against porto that he gave up was much more due to Wes Brown being an idiot then Howard not having his head together. Fergie also should've been playing Howard over Carroll last year as Carroll never impressed me much whenever he played


as far as adu having to play for those clubs, who knows where he will end up and how he'll do. The players to look for for the US right now are Oneywu and Eddie Johnson. If they both have good WCs then they'll be on the move. Landon Donovan won't be on the move because he is afraid of not being a big fish in a small pond

[Spaderess]

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I think his point was that none of those players are in a top european team

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Yes.

The Premiership is a very strong league, probably third after Spain and Italy. The top teams (Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool & United) are among Europes best. Still It's in no way arbitrary to say that it's behind the top two.

[banditbdl]

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You guys you'll need Adu to move to Barça/Milan/Chelsea,etc to gain some credibility in this sense.

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Is Adu still highly enough regarded as a prospect for a move to a top-top tier club to be likely in the future? I seem to get the impression interest in him as waned a little, not a lot, but at least a little.

[Fallen Hero]

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You guys you'll need Adu to move to Barça/Milan/Chelsea,etc to gain some credibility in this sense.

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Is Adu still highly enough regarded as a prospect for a move to a top-top tier club to be likely in the future? I seem to get the impression interest in him as waned a little, not a lot, but at least a little.

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He's still really really young, it's going to take a few years before he moves into a big club.

[JaredL]

OK let's compare Spain, a good but not great European team with the US. Here is Spain's roster for their WW qualifying match against Belgium on October 8:
GK Iker Casilla
D Puyol
D Carlos Marchena
D Michel Salgado
D Antonio Lopez
M Xavi
M Albelda
M Ruben Baraja
M Jose Antonio Reyes
F Raul
F David Villa

Subs that came on:
Vicente
Joaquin
Fernando Torres

Compare that to the US lineup versus Mexico September 3:
GK Kasey Keller
D Frankie Hejduk
D Gregg Berhalter
D Oguchi Onyewu
D Eddie Lewis
M Claudio Reyna
M Chris Armas
M DeMarcus Beasley
M Santino Quaranta
M Pablo Mastroeni
F Jeff Cunningham

subs:
Landon Donovan
Steve Ralston
Brian McBride

Comparing the two keepers it isn't close - Iker Casillas is miles better than Keller. I would take all four Spanish defenders over their American counterparts and Puyol and Marchena are much better than any of the US defenders. In the midfield I would again take all spanish players, 5 if you count Joaquin. This is a bit closer though I highly doubt any of those Americans would make the Spanish squad unless they played for Real Madrid. For the attackers Raul is an absolute joke and shouldn't have made the Spanish national team at all. None the less he is still probably better than all the Americans here. Same goes for the subs.

So basically of the 14 players that played for their respective teams I think all 14 Spanish players are better than their American counterparts. Some of them are close but in others, in particular a couple of defenders, the goalkeeper, and attacking players (especially if there were no super Real Madrid Raul man-love bias) the Spanish players are FAR better.

Spain is maybe a strange example since they have frequently been both among the most talented teams in the world and one of the first teams to crash out of the world cup. Also, compared to other teams they are more solid with no glaring weaknesses but no superstar standout guys either (like Henry et al). The main reason for this is that most of the very good Spanish players are also quite young, somewhere in their early twenties.

Jared

[Fallen Hero]

It's such a joke to have Raul in the spanish team this year. Specially since one of my favourite players worldwide (Fernando Torres) isn't on the starting 11.

[JaredL]

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It's such a joke to have Raul in the spanish team this year. Specially since one of my favourite players worldwide (Fernando Torres) isn't on the starting 11.

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Yeah no [censored]. I listened to the Sevilla - Real Madrid game on the radio (I'm ecstatic that in Zidane's last club match he lost to Sevilla, I hate him but that's a thread by itself). The Sevilla fans during the match were chanting:

que malo eres,
Raul, que malo eres.
que malo eres,
Raul que malo eres.

If you've ever heard Sevilla fans chanting hasta la muerte it's the same rythm. Literally translated que malo eres means how bad you are so it's pretty easy to get the gist. It's appalling how much the 'seleccion' favors Real Madrid players. Real Madrid haven't won a damn thing for a few years and half the national team is made up of Real Madrid players. Pretty much every Spanish player on the team is on the national team. It's a total joke.

Meanwhile, a guy like Daniel Alves who is an excellent right back now and will be ridiculous in the next few years I think, was begging to be on the national team and they didn't take him. He's Brazilian but has a Spanish passport and since he has no Brazil caps the Spanish could have taken him. He died his hair the colors of the Spanish flag to get attention but unfortunately for him because he doesn't play for Real Madrid and thus will never make the national team.

[KDawg]

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I think his point was that none of those players are in a top european team

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Yes.

The Premiership is a very strong league, probably third after Spain and Italy. The top teams (Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool & United) are among Europes best. Still It's in no way arbitrary to say that it's behind the top two.

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how many european trophies have italian teams won since the 98 WC, how many have british teams(cause lets face it, Celtic and Rangers share the same general player pool as english teams). Then, how many times has a british team made a european final. In the last 8 years, british teams have done better in europe then Italian. Last year you had the fifth placed english team beating the best italian team in the final. Milan also probably wouldn't have won all 4 of their Euro Cup trophies if it weren't for heysel and the english club ban from europe.

off teh top of my head, since WC98 ManU and Liverpool have won the champions league and aresenal made a final. In teh same span, Milan have made the final twice winning one of them and Juve have made it once(to which of course an italian team was going to win that final). Celtic, Liverpool, Middlesboro, and Aresenal have all made the UEFA Cup final in that span too. I can't remember off hand how many UEFA cup finals that italian teams have made in that span. So, to say that SerieA is the more dominant league over England is generally false, and you were again making your point to slant you argument. I have said before, there are americans in two G14 clubs and if John O'Brien hadn't injured himself soo badly as to lose his place at Ajax, then there'd be american starters at three G14 clubs.

[kolotoure]

How the hell does Raul get a place above Torres? I'm guessing it's just because of his rep. Are fabregas and Reyes starting for spain in the world cup?

[Fallen Hero]

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Meanwhile, a guy like Daniel Alves who is an excellent right back now and will be ridiculous in the next few years I think, was begging to be on the national team and they didn't take him. He's Brazilian but has a Spanish passport and since he has no Brazil caps the Spanish could have taken him. He died his hair the colors of the Spanish flag to get attention but unfortunately for him because he doesn't play for Real Madrid and thus will never make the national team.

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Daniel Alves is awesome, Spain should have jumped at the opportunity before Brazil does.