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#61
11-08-2006, 08:34 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
Well its better against you, but he doesn't know you, he's new to the table. First hand vs a bunch of unknowns playing 4 handed = seeing a showdown with 33 there, so he can bet/call or he can check/call and a lot of LAG donkeys will bluff on the end with KQ, Ace high, some random crap, and of course they will value bet him well too.
Funny enough assuming he wasn't brain dead, after this first hand he probably wrote a note on you like "passive overpair weak tight" or something. Conclusions from one hand can often come back to bite you. -DeathDonkey 
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#62
11-08-2006, 08:40 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
[ QUOTE ]
betting river seems far superior in my mind. please tell me why its not hock or dd. [/ QUOTE ] Simply put, of the hands that call a river bet there are WAY more hands that new guy loses to than beats. Plus a bet opens him up to a raise, which he pretty much has to crying call. Check/calling is definitely the more conservative, and in this case probably +EV, play.
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#63
11-08-2006, 08:44 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
[ QUOTE ]
Still rockin the $1/$2 on WPEX Evigt? [/ QUOTE ] i think u confuse me with someone else, i play 10/20 and sometimes taking shots at 20/40, but u got one thing right.. that i rock!
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#64
11-08-2006, 08:46 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
" 4 handed = seeing a showdown with 33 there"
i dont like to absolutes at all. but im not arguing he should fold anywhere. im just sayin that checking is gonna cost him a bet every time hes behind and betting is gonna get a bet from ace high. my hand range (esp given how passively i played) is very skewed towards ace high. im very surprised you and hock are advocates of check calling for him. even if i have a super wide 3bet range hes toast to a lot of my hands. all pairs and there are 4 overcards. assume im not an idiot and that i will check behind ace high but will call one more bet with ace high since im there getting xx:1 and the river missed most draws and check calling seems dumb as hell.
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#65
11-08-2006, 08:47 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
"Funny enough assuming he wasn't brain dead, after this first hand he probably wrote a note on you like "passive overpair weak tight" or something."
dd, i can only hope this is what he thinks of me and if he does and starts to act on it then my play is near brilliant.
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#66
11-08-2006, 08:50 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
"Simply put, of the hands that call a river bet there are WAY more hands that new guy loses to than beats."
but he gets calls from ace highs whereas if he checks he gets nothing from ace high and pays off all pairs.
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#67
11-08-2006, 08:55 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
[ QUOTE ]
Well its better against you, but he doesn't know you, he's new to the table. [/ QUOTE ] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ not everyone plays like you. you're asking why this guy made a bad play as if he knew who you were and not some donk who would make a bad bet with a worse hand on the river.
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#68
11-08-2006, 08:56 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well its better against you, but he doesn't know you, he's new to the table. [/ QUOTE ] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ not everyone plays like you. you're asking why this guy made a bad play as if he knew who you were and not some donk who would make a bad bet with a worse hand on the river. [/ QUOTE ] no, im pretty sure betting is better vs just about anyone.
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#69
11-08-2006, 09:06 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
i agree with you about that... i don't know if hock or dd are actually advocating his river line as much as saying that it doesn't make him a bad player for wanting to avoid a bluff raise in a ~8bb pot (whatever it is) and see a guaranteed showdown here with his first hand against an unknown. if that's what they're saying i agree with them. even if they're saying c/c > bet on this river, then i can't really fault them.
if c/calling the river is a mistake for that guy, it doesn't seem as harmful a mistake as you seeing him play this hand and instantly assuming he is a big donk.
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#70
11-08-2006, 10:17 PM
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Re: first hand for villain
A few things. First, there are few hands that will bluff bet the river if checked to. Second, many of the hands that beat new guy might check behind on the river, either fearing a c/r or just out of sheer confusion, which would save new guy a bet. And then third it ensures getting to see the showdown for max. 1 bet, avoiding getting raised.
A decent case can be made for betting -- you made it well. But I think I slightly favor check calling here, especially against an unknown.
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