when has a band "sold out" ?

[daveT]

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I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet.

Metallica sold out (if they hadn't already) when they waged war on Napster. It was selfish of them to try to make a few more millions when napster was a great vehicle for up and coming artists.

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I'm pretty sure that Metallica objected to their property being stolen and exchanged without their consent or their compensation. If you go steal a bunch of CDs out of a record store, burn copies for all your friends, does the store not have a right to go after you for theft? The whole "it was good for up-and-comers" argument doesn't work, either, because what if, for whatever reason, SOMEONE decides they don't want their work spread around freely like that? Isn't that their right, or do you subscribe to the hippie point of view that music is simply free expression, and they have no real justification for charging money to hear it?

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Intellectual property is the same as any other form of property. But Metallica sold out by basically suing they're fans for trading music most of them already owned. They called everyone thieves but forgot that these thieves had purchased tons of their crap for years, enough to make them multi-multi millionares. In return they basically gave those fans the finger in exchange for a couple of grand more (money that is meaningless to them) a year.

That, my friend, is the defintion of sellig out... when an amount of money that is inconsequential to you becomes more important than your fan base.

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So by this logic, successful bands should stop charging for new albums and concerts because they have enough money?

Bull-[censored]-[censored] that napster was just a bunch of friends swapping songs they already owned. You don't even believe that, you're just posting it because it sounds nice. napster was PIRACY, plain and simple. The fact that Metallica 'didn't need' more money in no way changes that fact.

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It's about how they handled it. Calling their fans thieves, suing them, etc. There are much beter roads they could have taken... instead they chose not to.

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So...let's say you have a regular at a retail store you own. He comes in faithfully every week to buy one of your products. Then, one day, he begins stealing your products. Should you not call him a thief, simply because of his loyal patronage in the past?

Call a spade a spade. How successful Metallica had been is completely irrelevant to the argument they were making...namely, that they have a right to decide what happens to their music.

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I think that any pro-napster argument ends witht the fact that "people are trading songs they already have." Right. I already own Enter Sandman, and I want to trade my Enter Sandman for my friends Enter Sandman?

What people don't realize is that it cost money to make music. The less money, the lower quality, and less selection of music on the market, but I guess it's okay to just whine about music sucking nowdays.

[Pete H]

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What people don't realize is that it cost money to make music. The less money, the lower quality, and less selection of music on the market, but I guess it's okay to just whine about music sucking nowdays.

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What RIAA lobbyists don't realize is that making music is risky business. You need to pay for the recording and then it's up to the customer's genoricity to buy the product or not.

What file sharing has changed is that now it's easier to check out if you like the product or not.

In the 90's it was possible to sell an album with one hit song. Nowadays it won't sell as people are more careful.
Record companies have finally noticed this and are now selling mp3s.

They could've done that years earlier, but they probably wanted to keep selling full albums instead of hit songs.

Porn industry started to make money on internet from day one.

Download for free / buy the product ratio has to be way worse in porn than in music, yet you don't hear porn people complaining about free downloaders. Why? Because downloaders are potential customers.

NP: Coroner - Reborn Through Hate