3 bet gets 4 bet deep in Sunday Million

[shaundeeb]

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This thread has gone awful long to try to explain "only reraise if you can snapcall a shove, otherwise call and play good postflop".

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meh I think it's good to get back to the reasoning behind what people endup getting at. And also blanket statements rock.

[Mench]

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This thread has gone awful long to try to explain "only reraise if you can snapcall a shove, otherwise call and play good postflop".

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makes the most sense.

[uclabruinz]

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This thread has gone awful long to try to explain "only reraise if you can snapcall a shove, otherwise call and play good postflop".

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True, but LearnedfromTV's contributions are pure gold.

[KneeCo]

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This thread has gone awful long to try to explain "only reraise a hand ahead of his range if you can snapcall a shove, otherwise call and play good postflop".

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Right?
No one is arguing with the resteal w/ air sometimes suggestions.

[ZeeJustin]

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This thread has gone awful long to try to explain "only reraise a hand ahead of his range if you can snapcall a shove, otherwise call and play good postflop".

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Right?
No one is arguing with the resteal w/ air sometimes suggestions.

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Basically. But the FYP is not complete. If we reason that restealing with air is fine because he will fold even good hands to us, then we shouldn't be reraising aces either.

Also, reraising with AQ is correct if he folds AJ and 99, but that is not likely to be the case.

[TheNewf]

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Basically. But the FYP is not complete. If we reason that restealing with air is fine because he will fold even good hands to us, then we shouldn't be reraising aces either.


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This is certainly not neccesarily true, ie A does not imply B. Even if he folds most of his hands reraising can still be the best play here with AA depending on stuff like how he plays postflop and how wide he 4-bets.

For example if he 4-bets something reasonable like AQ+,TT+ we can't call profitably a 4-bet with AQ if we make a normal size reraise but unless he's really spewy with his weaker hands postflop we're probably still better off reraising with AA.

[ZeeJustin]

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but unless he's really spewy with his weaker hands postflop we're probably still better off reraising with AA.

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Obviously it's not necessarily true. If after a float he shoves every flop, then it's much better to just call AA. That's technically proof right there.

But if he folds extremely often to a 3 bet, it is likely correct to just call with AA.

[Todd Terry]

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That said, AQo has more than 50% equity than a random hand on 71% of flops, or slightly more than half of those without an ace or queen. It has greater than 70% equity on 62% of flops, or something like 40% of flops without an ace or queen.

Change random hand to top 40% and those percentages are 66 and 59.

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Where did these numbers come from? I'd like to have a program that can do calculations like this. Thanks.

FWIW, I think the >70% numbers seem too high, especially the 40% of flops w/o an A or Q. AQo is 64.43% preflop against a random hand, I can't believe its equity goes up on 40% of the flops without an A or Q. In fact, I'd be surprised if that number was above 4%.

[g-p]

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ZJ I was going to say similar don't 3bet PF unless you are snapcalling a shove,

Doing this with 58s is fine though.

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but 86o? 42o?? hmmm

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Your hand doesn't matter if he will fold often enough.

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was an inside joke, but thanks !!!!

[LearnedfromTV]

Todd -

propokertools.com, use the graph feature.

I'm doubting the results I posted though; I think there is a glitch with the random hand where it's giving the equity after the river instead of after the flop. The graph indicates that there are flops where AQo has <10% equity, and I can't find any. I also don't think there are enough flops where AQo flops draws; it's ahead on boards like T62, but not >70%.

Anyway, like I said before I don't think the answer to the question is that important to the hand (for lines that don't lead to showdown, our range vs. his specific hand is more important than our specific hand vs his range, and the majority of the time we see showdown after significant action, we'll have a pair), but it is interesting and I want to figure out what's up with the tool.