Libertarian Socialism - I don't understand...

[Dan.]

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The easiest example to show the absurdity of your claim is that under your defintion every company is a government.

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People coming together to make decisions are acting as a government. Companies are a government.

[Dan.]

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I'm one of those poor confused souls who haven't yet figured out how AC provides a criminal justice system equivalent.

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It doesn't. It provides a mockery of justice paid for by the highest bidder. The status quo isn't perfect either, so try to not attack me by pointing out flaws in the current system.

[ShakeZula06]

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By your definition, that's what government is. But does that mean all governments are or ought to be like that? No.

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Fine, then by your wacky defintion of government ACists are not always anti-government, just anti-governments built on coersion and theft.

Not to mention that LS under this defintion has a government.

[ojc02]

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OR by voluntary cooperation in which case the point is moot because this is a lot of individuals acting in unison.

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Which is a government, thereby defeating AC. But we don't need to hijack that here.

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No, a government is not voluntary. By definition the government is the only agent that can use physical force, and that's all they do (or threaten to do).

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We've been down this road, son. Search function is your friend. By your definition, that's what government is. But does that mean all governments are or ought to be like that? No. I'll post no more on this topic here. But I'll suggest you read Aristotle's Politics as a good start about government.

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See Shake's post. I have no problem with VOLUNTARY governments (with whatever definition of government you want to use). It's the INVOLUNTARY megalith that I take issue with (which incidently is virtually every actual government I've ever heard of).

[hmkpoker]

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So your goal is a society where people don't have anything they enjoy; everyone just has a crap apartment, food, and long lines of health care. Sounds like fun.

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So your goal is a society where people are left in the dust if they lack appropriate funds; many are without homes, food, or health care. Sounds like fun.

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"Many" is wrong if viewed (correctly) as a percentage. Homelessness and starvation are very rare in America. We have a life expectancy that is very near the average age of deaths by "natural causes," and our poverty level is defined at a spot that is significantly wealthier than the mean global income.

Notice that Propertarian, probably this forum's most well-read and vocal leftist, spends little time complaining about the poor lacking adequate survival resources in a free market compared to his diatribes on relative inequality from a psychological perspective. That's because we know the free market has pretty much conquered survival needs, excepting a small minority (which exist even in places like Sweden.)

Cut off every ounce of productivity, fun and enjoyment in life so we can protect the extreme few in this society who should be naturally selected against? I'll pass.

[Dan.]

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Not to mention that LS under this defintion has a government.

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WAIT A SECOND!!! IT HAS A GOVERNMENT!!!???!!!! Oh yeah, it never claimed to be without one.

[ojc02]

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Notice that Propertarian, probably this forum's most well-read and vocal leftist, spends little time complaining about the poor lacking adequate survival resources in a free market compared to his diatribes on relative inequality from a psychological perspective. That's because we know the free market has pretty much conquered survival needs, excepting a small minority (which exist even in places like Sweden.)

Cut off every ounce of productivity, fun and enjoyment in life so we can protect the extreme few in this society who should be naturally selected against? I'll pass.

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Seriously. I was just thinking about this earlier. I walked past two homeless guys, both really fat and I thought: "Wow, what a place we live, the beggars are obese!!".

[ShakeZula06]

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Not to mention that LS under this defintion has a government.

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WAIT A SECOND!!! IT HAS A GOVERNMENT!!!???!!!! Oh yeah, it never claimed to be without one.

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You should learn more about the views you support. There are defintitely anarchists in the LS camp.

[Dan.]

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Cut off every ounce of productivity, fun and enjoyment in life so we can protect the extreme few in this society who should be naturally selected against? I'll pass.

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Who says there's no fun and enjoyment? Because I, personally, do not know how Wiis would be distributed? I've never claimed any sort of expertise on the topic.

[ojc02]

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Not to mention that LS under this defintion has a government.

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WAIT A SECOND!!! IT HAS A GOVERNMENT!!!???!!!! Oh yeah, it never claimed to be without one.

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By your definition of government, my room has a government because there's more than one person in it.