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#61
10-21-2007, 03:20 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You don't think that infants have the right to not be murdered? When is the right gained? Birth seems to be a pretty clear cut line to me. [/ QUOTE ] Birth is only "clear cut" because it is convenient and indisputable. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights. Prior to birth the fetus is inside the woman's body and therefore is subject to her decisions. [/ QUOTE ] So people are property while inside a womb but not property while outside a womb? What is the logic here? Again, it's convenient but there is absolutely no physiological argument to be made. 
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#62
10-21-2007, 03:22 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think a mother has the right to not be forced to care for a child not the right to agress against the child. In other words, I think a mother has the right to walk away from a child after birth, but not step on its head. [/ QUOTE ] So a mother can leave her kid in a dumpster to freeze to death? What's the difference? [/ QUOTE ] Well, placing the child in a dumpster could be viewed as an act of aggression. Obviously me saying that a person has the right to do something doesn't mean that I condone it. The difference is the difference between the statements "babies have the right to live" and "babies have the right to not be murdered". [/ QUOTE ] This makes a discussion about rights seem like pointless semantics.
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#63
10-21-2007, 03:23 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Male circumcision most likely has positive (physical) side-effects. [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] Net or at all? I think you can say it has no NET positive effects but the specific positive effects of preventing HIV transmission seem fairly solid to me. [/ QUOTE ] I have seen no evidence of this. Are we comparing heavily circumcised countries where condoms are also heavily used like the U.S. to countries that are mostly uncircumcised and condoms aren't used much like many African nations?
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#64
10-21-2007, 03:25 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You don't think that infants have the right to not be murdered? When is the right gained? Birth seems to be a pretty clear cut line to me. [/ QUOTE ] Birth is only "clear cut" because it is convenient and indisputable. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights. Prior to birth the fetus is inside the woman's body and therefore is subject to her decisions. [/ QUOTE ] At best that just gives her the right to get it out. Since babies can survive early deliveries for many weeks before the actual event, how is aborting them during that time period where they could live without the mother any different from killing them after birth?
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#65
10-21-2007, 03:26 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You don't think that infants have the right to not be murdered? When is the right gained? Birth seems to be a pretty clear cut line to me. [/ QUOTE ] Birth is only "clear cut" because it is convenient and indisputable. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights. Prior to birth the fetus is inside the woman's body and therefore is subject to her decisions. [/ QUOTE ] So people are property while inside a womb but not property while outside a womb? What is the logic here? Again, it's convenient but there is absolutely no physiological argument to be made. [/ QUOTE ] Do you think that a woman should be forced to feed to herself if she is pregnant?
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#66
10-21-2007, 03:27 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You don't think that infants have the right to not be murdered? When is the right gained? Birth seems to be a pretty clear cut line to me. [/ QUOTE ] Birth is only "clear cut" because it is convenient and indisputable. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights. Prior to birth the fetus is inside the woman's body and therefore is subject to her decisions. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights... This is what I mean by a heavy Western culture bias. Only someone who has bought into the western specific culture would even make such an argument. Property rights over human beings sounds like slavery to non-western ears (and hopefully some western ears as well).
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#67
10-21-2007, 03:30 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that a woman should be forced to feed to herself if she is pregnant? [/ QUOTE ] Do you think that answering questions with non-sequitors is acceptable? I'm anticipating that you are trying to back me into a corner here, but I'd say that a woman who doesn't take good care of herself (and this includes not eating, doing drugs, etc) while pregnant is clearly morally in the wrong. A woman who refues to eat entirely would probably not be mentally sane and therefore shouldn't be having kids at all.
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#68
10-21-2007, 03:31 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You don't think that infants have the right to not be murdered? When is the right gained? Birth seems to be a pretty clear cut line to me. [/ QUOTE ] Birth is only "clear cut" because it is convenient and indisputable. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights. Prior to birth the fetus is inside the woman's body and therefore is subject to her decisions. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights... This is what I mean by a heavy Western culture bias. Only someone who has bought into the western specific culture would even make such an argument. Property rights over human beings sounds like slavery to non-western ears (and hopefully some western ears as well). [/ QUOTE ] non-westeners don't think that they own their bodies?
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#69
10-21-2007, 03:33 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you think that a woman should be forced to feed to herself if she is pregnant? [/ QUOTE ] Do you think that answering questions with non-sequitors is acceptable? I'm anticipating that you are trying to back me into a corner here, but I'd say that a woman who doesn't take good care of herself (and this includes not eating, doing drugs, etc) while pregnant is clearly morally in the wrong. A woman who refues to eat entirely would probably not be mentally sane and therefore shouldn't be having kids at all. [/ QUOTE ] agreed Morality is a different discussion, though.
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#70
10-21-2007, 03:33 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
non-westeners don't think that they own their bodies? [/ QUOTE ] Not really, and I doubt most people would put it in those terms. This shouldn't be a surprise, but I guess when interest in humanity is replaced by interest in theory...
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