Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Management wants them around. It's the path of least resistance, and the idiots feed the games. We're run by regulars, not tourists. I'm sure it'd take a while for word to get out that a place has cleaned up, so forseeable-term is +EV for the casino to let them stay.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the short term getting rid of the abusers would be -EV (both for business and action). But over time the club would replace the abusers with far more reasonably behaved people and end up far ahead. If fact eventually you could get back most of the abusers as long as they understood their prior behavior would no longer be tolerated.

Management of course tends to think short term unless they are very secure in their jobs. Even if they are secure they tend to have a mental accounting of how many hours a customer like Iris plays but have no idea how many gentleman "Wally types" (see his post elsewhere in this thread) are driven away by the ugliness of the Iris like behavior.

It's really sad and pathetic.

~ Rick

[Wally S]

Rick -

I think that you are right on with yur analysis. The notion that most people enjoy the aggressive behavior at the Commerce is wrong. Many people enjoy the good action. They equate good action with the bad behavior of some of the bad players and think we must tolerate the behavior to get the action. I think that is wrong. The first place to start is to enforce rules against dealer/staff abuse. They dont deserve such a hostile work enviornment. If dealer abuse was stopped then the player to player abuse would be more noticeable. Most of the worst abusers can and would change their behavior if there were quick and severe consequences meted out. Just like smoking (another addiction) gambolers will change if they have to in order to be able to continue with their addiction.

Wally

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
What constraints are there on the market? I take it what you're saying is not just anyone could plop down a room with 300 tables in it next week if they wanted to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. State law has not even allowed referendums on new card clubs for the past several years and won't until (I think) 2015 or so. A new club hasn't opened in years (The Hustler took over the old licence of The Eldorado).

LA is uniquely advantages for existing card clubs. There are millions of people living within a short drive of essentially five major card clubs and a few smaller ones with no other real legal gambling except horse racing, some bingo, and the lottery.

You can screw up an awful lot and still fill your club at peak hours.

~ Rick

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask a silly question?

I've never been to the Commerce, so I have no idea (other than what you all say) what the players/action are like. My question is why does management/dealers put up with the arseholes like this lady Iris who mark the cards, cuss the dealer, throw sh*t, etc. Can these people not act their age? Are they drunk or doing drugs or something?

I can say for certain that this behavior would not be tolerated in other card rooms in other parts of the country. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I play at CAZ. Dealer abuse is not tolerated. A quick example: The other day a player says something pretty bad to a dealer. The dealer doesn't bother calling a floor person over and says to the player: 'Do you want to apologize right now or do you want to go home?' Player apologizes. End of problem.

My guess is that the LA cardrooms are afraid of losing customers to the many other area cardrooms. I am used to abusive people from the business I was in for many years (low-income housing in the Bronx) plus playing poker for over 10 years so it doesn't bother me as much as it does 'regular' people. When I visit SoCal poker rooms it's sort of like going to the zoo for me. I get to see all the interesting animals in their natural habitat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it ain't tolerated in the rooms I frequent either. I got my hand slapped recently by the female dealer (all 4'11 & 90 lbs of her) because me & some of the guys at my end of the table were BSing & I told them a dirty joke with the word p*ssy in it & she overheard it of course.

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
State law has not even allowed referendums on new card clubs for the past several years and won't until (I think) 2015 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

2010.

Even then, the existing clubs will lobby hard to keep the field closed to newcomers.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I play at CAZ. Dealer abuse is not tolerated. A quick example: The other day a player says something pretty bad to a dealer. The dealer doesn't bother calling a floor person over and says to the player: 'Do you want to apologize right now or do you want to go home?' Player apologizes. End of problem.

My guess is that the LA cardrooms are afraid of losing customers to the many other area cardrooms. I am used to abusive people from the business I was in for many years (low-income housing in the Bronx) plus playing poker for over 10 years so it doesn't bother me as much as it does 'regular' people. When I visit SoCal poker rooms it's sort of like going to the zoo for me. I get to see all the interesting animals in their natural habitat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had that one visit to CAZ and found it very pleasant. Here's my quick story:

In the "$5-$150 sort of NL game" I give a guy a bad beat based on the cards he actually had (but my play was reasonable based on my estimate of his range). Anyway the guy keeps on me for several hands with "How can you make that bet/call/raise?" and so on. I reply with my usual silence.

Now the dealer must have thought my feelings were hurt so she comes out and tells the guy "We are mostly here to have fun; please don't criticize the gentleman." (while motioning in my direction; I guess she doesn't know the real me [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

I almost passed out from shock.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
State law has not even allowed referendums on new card clubs for the past several years and won't until (I think) 2015 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

2010.

Even then, the existing clubs will lobby hard to keep the field closed to newcomers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I lived in Cypress when that city had a referendum around 1992 to put in a large club at Los Alamitos Race track (which is actually in Cypress).

The stack of mail pro and con eventually reached about 2 feet high. Most of the con flyers were funded through the back door by the card clubs.

The measure went down by about a 2 to 1 margin. Cypress did the right thing though; they now have a Costco in that location.

~ Rick

[sternroolz]

[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask a silly question?

I've never been to the Commerce, so I have no idea (other than what you all say) what the players/action are like. My question is why does management/dealers put up with the arseholes like this lady Iris who mark the cards, cuss the dealer, throw sh*t, etc. Can these people not act their age? Are they drunk or doing drugs or something?


[/ QUOTE ]

All of the above. I can't tell you how odd a reaction I got the last time a player at $20-40 said to a Commerce floorman "You should treat your customers better....I lose 800 f---ing dollars here today!" and I burst into a full on out loud belly laugh.

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
But you can have plenty of action and a modicum of civility if card club management demands and enforces the modicum of civility.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Plus, management can still defend the dealers: Sticking up for them in the face of offensive players actually helps to keep the juices flowing--it's another form of confrontation that keeps the offending player on center stage (which is what they really love).

A couple of notes:

There's nothing that prevents players at the table from chastising a player who is abusing a dealer (I could start a thread on this. It can be loads of fun and a good way to enhance tilt); and,

I was playing at the Bike last Jan. and didn't think it was too bad.

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell you how odd a reaction I got the last time a player at $20-40 said to a Commerce floorman "You should treat your customers better....I lose 800 f---ing dollars here today!" and I burst into a full on out loud belly laugh.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a surprisingly common sentiment among losers.

"NO I will not be quiet," spoken to the floor, "I just lost TWO RACKS here [two racks of $1's, incidentally [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]] and that gives me the right to say anything I please to anybody I please. And buddy, didn't I tell you at least 10 minutes ago to get me a damned waitress? Where is she? I want my TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR drink!"

He didn't get his drink. But he wasn't playing at Commerce or I'm sure he would have.