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#61
11-12-2007, 02:08 AM
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Re: Freewill
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So what was it that made you choose the profession that you are in, since your will to choose freely doesn't exist? [/ QUOTE ] I majored in physics because it seemed challenging, because I'm deeply interested in how the world works, and because what I knew of physics was beautiful and seemed like a lot of fun. Among other reasons. But I don't want to get into a complex analysis of human decision-making processes. So I'll take a reductionistic view. I chose because the chemical processes in my brain led to the action of writing "physics" on the "major" line in my application. Most likely my prefrontal cortex and the organization of the neurons there were responsible for the decision-making process itself. But I don't know what role glial cells, different areas of my brain, and environmental inputs (for example) played. [/ QUOTE ] So your brain acts independent of your genetic makeup? Or did your genetic makeup have a role to play in how your brain processes, compared to the person who chooses to become a doctor, or lawyer? I think so. It all boils down to genes. You can sing the whole process of the brain, but it's all genetics. Some of us have better genes than others. Some are lucky, others are not. Some are lucky and put it to good use. Others don't. That would be two people with similar smart genes but genes of a completely different pool when it comes to motivation. 
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#62
11-12-2007, 02:35 AM
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Re: Freewill
It's not all genes. Plenty of it is environment. And "genes" don't really exist without environment. Genes are sequences of nitrogenous bases in an alternating sugar-phosphate chain that makes up a long molecule called a chromosome. Physical damage to the chromosome can change the genes. As can errors when the chromosome is splitting in two or when the gene is being turned into a protein. And the proteins created from the gene can still be damaged and affected by the environment. Which proteins are created is often a matter of environmental factors. Hell, when all of these proteins, interacting in the appropriate ways, result in the brain itself, that brain is highly subject to environmental factors. And then the life of the individual person - the organism that brain is attached to - can proceed in many different ways depending on the environment. And I've skipped a few steps.
DNA is just a molecule, not some "magic map" of the future.
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#63
11-12-2007, 06:53 PM
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Re: Freewill
My arguement against free will can be summised in one paragrarh;
Question: If u were George Bush would you have done ANYTHING differently? Would you have thought or acted or felt in any way differently to him? Answer: No. If u were Bush u would have felt exactly the same as him and acted based on these feelings in exactly the same way. This proves that as entities we have no ability to change our path. I think of the human as a computer system which will always make decisions that they think (experience + IQ determines thinking power) will benefit them most. Can you think of any of ure acts where u cant say i wanted. Eg i wanted my kids safe so i drove them to school etc etc. Well thats just 2 reasons to prove it but i have many more intuitive examples. I realise this looks extremely amateur and stupid and its because im stoned and giving facts based on bare intuition. I think youll find the arguement is flawless though.
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#65
11-12-2007, 07:34 PM
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Re: Freewill
[ QUOTE ]
I realise this looks extremely amateur and stupid and its because im stoned and giving facts based on bare intuition. I think youll find the arguement is flawless though. [/ QUOTE ] No, it isn't. And you're making the rest of us determinists look stupid. You said you were going to present an argument as solid as 2+2=4. That argument is based on the most fundamental mathematical axioms. If you want to present a good argument, you'll have to take the same approach. Begin with basic premises, and then proceed through valid inferences to a conclusion that free will can't exist. Do that, come back, and we can discuss your proof. You may want to read up on the subject of what makes a valid argument, so you don't waste our time.
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#67
11-12-2007, 07:52 PM
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Re: Freewill
[ QUOTE ]
My arguement against free will can be summised in one paragrarh; Question: If u were George Bush would you have done ANYTHING differently? Would you have thought or acted or felt in any way differently to him? Answer: No. If u were Bush u would have felt exactly the same as him and acted based on these feelings in exactly the same way. This proves that as entities we have no ability to change our path. I think of the human as a computer system which will always make decisions that they think (experience + IQ determines thinking power) will benefit them most. Can you think of any of ure acts where u cant say i wanted. Eg i wanted my kids safe so i drove them to school etc etc. Well thats just 2 reasons to prove it but i have many more intuitive examples. I realise this looks extremely amateur and stupid and its because im stoned and giving facts based on bare intuition. I think youll find the arguement is flawless though. [/ QUOTE ] How do you know? Counter arguement. If u were George Bush would you have done ANYTHING differently? Would you have thought or acted or felt in any way differently to him? Answer: Maybe. If u were Bush u would have felt exactly the same as him and acted based on these feelings in probably a similar way. I think you'll find it flawless. (So long as you can ignore the fact that I'm not backing it up with anything at all, just stating my opinion as fact.)
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#70
11-12-2007, 08:06 PM
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Re: Freewill
And maybe there's truth in your argument. But being explicit and thorough is important when expressing an argument to others. As it stands, nobody can make much sense of your points (at least, nobody who doesn't already agree with you).
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