russia is shutting down allofmp3 to join the world trade organization

[astroglide]

rj, weren't you just complaining about lame analogies?

[Evan]

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music is different than each material object because its variable cost is exactly 0

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people charge more than cost for material objects because of the work that went into developing them.

i don't see how that is different from music, you're just gayly abstracting it because it's not something you can hold in your hand.

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if people want to buy bumpers for their cars. my factory designs and tests a bumper, this is the fixed cost we have to recover. In addition, every bumper we make costs us x amount of money. the costs of the bumper= fixed costs+x.

With music, the artist records a song and it is mixed, produced, etc. The artist and label must recover this amount. Beyond this for every mp3 that is downloaded by a user costs them x amount of dollars. the only difference is that this x=0. my exact point. the cost of the mp3=fixed cost+x. the recording industry has a far far different opinion of what x is than what it actually is.

rj

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I bet the record industry has a pretty damn good idea of what x is.

Edit: and just to be clear, x is definitely not 0.

[PITTM]

i just assumed you didnt know what a variable cost was so i thought i would illustrate that concept for you. it really just seems like you have 0 understanding that me getting an mp3 from kipin costs a label nothing, while me stealing a material object costs a company something. we;ve had this argument before and how you cant get past this simple point just freezes my brain because it makes no sense to me that someone who seems intelligent otherwise cant grasp such an incredibly simple concept.

rj

[PITTM]

evan,

if we;re counting the costs of running a server, sure. i guess? im just saying there is no replacement needed for a non material object and it costs 0 to "produce" after 1 has been produced.

rj

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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i just assumed you didnt know what a variable cost was so i thought i would illustrate that concept for you. it really just seems like you have 0 understanding that me getting an mp3 from kipin costs a label nothing, while me stealing a material object costs a company something. we;ve had this argument before and how you cant get past this simple point just freezes my brain because it makes no sense to me that someone who seems intelligent otherwise cant grasp such an incredibly simple concept.

rj

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software and pharma companies have something to say about your incredibly simple concept

[nolanfan34]

This thread is great.

KBZ's point earlier that people who share Kipin's views likely haven't created any information more accurately refers to intellectual property. El D and others can chime in with how "free" they think their intellectual property should be.

Max is completely right, trying to rationalize it with "information wants to be free" statements is really hilarious.

[PITTM]

how could one possibly argue that pharma companies have no variable costs? i agree with the software argument btw...

obviously my argument omits the fact that the fixed cost needs to be recovered somehow. and that this should be reflected in the price. i think this is its true weakness. however, many open source freeware developers and indie musicians might agree with my orig point.

rj

[Dominic]

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Why don't all you ballas just pay for you music legit?

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I refuse to buy music anymore.

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dominic, he said he was addressing ballas.

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that's true. I ain't no balla. My house actually has a big-screen TV AND is decorated nicely. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Aloysius]

Kipin:

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Exactly, its basically a simple economics Supply/Demand thing and with digital media there is infinite supply so the price should be very close, if not entirely at 0.

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WTF? Love to hear your thoughts on other content / information "that wants to be free" - movies, television shows, etc.

-Al

[PITTM]

i think kipin would argue that we should be allowed to copy television shows and movies. in fact, i would be shocked if he didnt.

rj