Daniel parodies the Ivey vs. Vaswani/et. all golf "hustle"

[Max Raker]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it amazing that they would take Lindgrens word for it regarding Ivey's game. If I was going to play Phil Ivey for that much money in anything I'm pretty sure I'd take every precaution to make sure I wasn't getting hustled.

Hmm, they wagered a ton of money against one of the most competitive people on the planet, and a professional gambler at that. And they got hustled? Well [censored], I could have never seen that coming.

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What if they later found out that Ivey promised Eric a cut if he lied to them about his handicap? Would that be outright cheating or just a good hustle.


I am not at all saying this happened, I just want to know the point where people think hustling becomes outright cheating.

[longdistance]

A post from DN on FCP that, I think, sheds some light:

QUOTE(longdistance @ Monday, April 9th, 2007, 10:01 PM) *
Hi Daniel,
When did goodwin and vaswani find out that edog no longer gives strokes? Was he completely lying that it was that night?

We all know Ivey is probably the best gambler in the world, and he knows how to get an edge--Did he mislead or misrepresent himself at all? I'm sure whatever was said by him is acceptable and not immoral for this type of wagering, as I am sure you are a better judge of that than anyone else besides a few people (who've you also gambled with)...I'm just curious if they are totally making up a false pretext to welch, or whether they arguably have a case.

Thanks,
Jay in montreal


I believe what happened was after the match, by then end of the trip, Ivey played a match even with Erick. They started at 5 a side (10 strokes) and made adjustments. Phil won, and decided to give Erick a chance to win his money back by playing in a little made for TV special for their website.

Later they heard that they played even and thought Phil was lying about what he'd said. When Ivey said what he said, he was telling the truth. It wasn't till after their match did his spot with Erick change.

[THEOSU]

i have trouble siding with anybody that refers to himself as "MrCool"

[slickss]

When we're on the topic of asking your opponent for his handicap when you are playing high stakes golf - what about variance?

Golf has variance too. And if you suddenly play a lot better than you usually do, like Negreanu claimed Ivey did, isn't some suspicion and distrust bound to happen? If Ivey is a handicap 25 but is extremely well focused and is simply having a great day of golf, thus playing like a handicap 10, I would also accuse him of hustling me.

If this is the case then all players must play according to their handicap, which makes the game pretty pointless in the first place. The handicap system is just not suited for high stakes gambling.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

daniel makes good points but is pretty stupid to scramble the names, etc. If he came out direct, thats fine, but the whole my buddy thing and vam wasrani crap is lame, just come out and say it.

the second thing is--DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH???

if daniels acct of the story is accurate then obviously this is unquestionably the right way to think about it. But what rational person would disagree?

Obviously there is more to this.

[LBK]

[ QUOTE ]
daniel makes good points but is pretty stupid to scramble the names, etc. If he came out direct, thats fine, but the whole my buddy thing and vam wasrani crap is lame, just come out and say it.

the second thing is--DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH???

if daniels acct of the story is accurate then obviously this is unquestionably the right way to think about it. But what rational person would disagree?

Obviously there is more to this.

[/ QUOTE ]


I just thinks its funny that we are even talking about this as if any of these guys have ethics. These are professional scumbags. These guys would angle shoot their moms if it paid for their blow that night. Of course there is more to it. They all cheat each other and the money funnels around and changes hands through the pyramid.

[cbloom]

The funny thing is all the poker pros have been hustled for big bucks by all the golf hustlers (including the Mob apparently), and Ivey turns around and gets good and hustles them back. He deserves to get paid just for the awesomeness of that.

[Richard Tanner]

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I find it amazing that they would take Lindgrens word for it regarding Ivey's game. If I was going to play Phil Ivey for that much money in anything I'm pretty sure I'd take every precaution to make sure I wasn't getting hustled.

Hmm, they wagered a ton of money against one of the most competitive people on the planet, and a professional gambler at that. And they got hustled? Well [censored], I could have never seen that coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if they later found out that Ivey promised Eric a cut if he lied to them about his handicap? Would that be outright cheating or just a good hustle.


I am not at all saying this happened, I just want to know the point where people think hustling becomes outright cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

To these people, there is no line. I've read hundreds of posts in B&M about people that miscall their hands or get pushed pots they didn't win thanks to angle shoots, and there are always people that say "hey if the chips end up with you, regaurdless of method, you won". Obviously this isn't the case, but to some people that's all that matters.

Obviously, if Ivey and Erick were somehow in this together (worth repeating that this is only a hypothetical) then it's cheating. These people aren't backroom gamblers or friends playing for $5 in someones basement, they're pros staking their repuatations and ability to get further action on every bet. I think this was poorly played by all involved, but I know only what I've been told, not exactly the best way to form an opinion.

Cody

[Vee Quiva]

There are just way too many discrepancies in this story:

1. Ram claims that he asked Phil how many strokes Eric Lindgren gives him and Phil answers 10. We have not heard from Phil or Negreanu if this is correct.

2. Daniel says that Lindgren used to give Phil 10 shots until he heard about the Ram match and now plays him even. This is a huge adjustment in strokes.

3. Daniel says Phil told him that he won holes shooting 6's and 7's and that Ram and Marc played terrible.

4. Marc's post in blondpoker says he shot 7 pars and one birdie for 9 holes and they lost 8 holes. I don't know what the handicap of Phil's partner was, but this assumes that Phil and partner must have birdied or eagled a bunch of holes. If it was just Phil's ball with 5 handicap strokes then he would have had to par or birdie many of those holes to beat to beat Marc.

5. How many holes did they play? The first 2+2 rumor was that it was 18 holes and a couple of players walked off before even 9 holes were done. Marc Goodwin seems to imply they played 18. Negreanu implies they played 72 holes.

I think a poker magazine ought to exercise a little journalistic muscle and do a story on this event. It would be nice to have an unbiased third party gather the facts and present them to the public.

It would sure be more interesting than the crap they publish now.

[mattnxtc]

DN answered on the Lindgren situation. He said that at that time Lindgren was giving Ivey 10 strokes and that after a few more rounds in which Ivey won, they dropped it to even (huge drop in strokes) to play another round