**Official** uNL Microbrew Thread - October

[NL Newbie]

Hmm still a huge over emphasis on stats, when thing only has played 26 000 hands.



WWSF is a worthless stat, if your passive on the flop people will fold less so it drops. If your super aggro they may fold more so its higher. If your loose and aggro and playing solid players it will be lower since htey realise your rangeis massive and float you.


If you 2 barrel more it may affect it, people now fold the flop with 66 on K23 since they know you may bet turn and make them fold...its costing them alot.

Thing85 - I think you need to get away from stats and focus on postflop. Preflop is merely advertising, postflop is where you get the pay cheques.

You can prob win being 15/9 and 22/11 and 30/1.

So 26k is not a good sample.
Preflop means little.
PT stats mean even less.


You may of played some hands bad, made some bad folds due to running bad, made some great bluffs but were against the top 2% of their range rather than the 98% they fold.

26k wont tell you much buddy.

[whyzze]

the turn is my favorite street in position...its my most hated OOP.

[NL Newbie]

[ QUOTE ]

If loosening up a bit pre-flop allows you play more comfortably post flop (i.e. stops you from going too far with a particular hand), then this pre-flop nuance is significant to your success.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

If playing tight marries you to your strong hands, then it's going to hurt your post-flop play (this is really just paraphrasing what Genz said).

[/ QUOTE ]


I consider both of these to be tilt. one should be assigning range and %'s beat and lost to roughly. Being marrired to a hand is effectively getting AA preflop and saying "IM FELTING THIS BECAUSE I WANT CHIPS".


Thats massive tilt, if anyone does this then theres a leak already imo.

[thing85]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm still a huge over emphasis on stats, when thing only has played 26 000 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of what you said is correct, but this is not. I've played 200k+ hands...but I only posted the stats from my downswing. As someone mentioned, stats may not tell everything, but they DO have meaning.

[Student Caine]

I actually started doing this for any pot where I was +/- 10BB. It becomes cumbersome when you raise a lot preflop because there are so many hands to root thought, but I think it really helped me to ferret out more leaks. Specifically I found huge instances of loose flop calls that were slowly gnawing away at my BR, and losing value due to pushing out worse hands with the "I'm ahead in a 20BB pot, I'll shove the other 90BB now" approach (or something similar).

[thing85]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If loosening up a bit pre-flop allows you play more comfortably post flop (i.e. stops you from going too far with a particular hand), then this pre-flop nuance is significant to your success.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

If playing tight marries you to your strong hands, then it's going to hurt your post-flop play (this is really just paraphrasing what Genz said).

[/ QUOTE ]


I consider both of these to be tilt. one should be assigning range and %'s beat and lost to roughly. Being marrired to a hand is effectively getting AA preflop and saying "IM FELTING THIS BECAUSE I WANT CHIPS".


Thats massive tilt, if anyone does this then theres a leak already imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying this is what I do. It's just an example of how pre-flop play could affect post-flop play.

Also, it's not tilt if it's the way you normally play. I consider tilt to be some kind of deviation from how you normally play/how you think you should play.

[NL Newbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm still a huge over emphasis on stats, when thing only has played 26 000 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of what you said is correct, but this is not. I've played 200k+ hands...but I only posted the stats from my downswing. As someone mentioned, stats may not tell everything, but they DO have meaning.

[/ QUOTE ]


So are you winning over 200k?

They dont over 26k, your winrate can vary from -10 to +2PTBB/100 with a SD of 40. SD is miscalculated in PT i believe but none the less.

[thing85]

Yes, I am winning over 200k, but just barely given my recent long stretch of losing/break-even poker. Also, my play now is significantly different from when I first started playing NL, so it's hard to compare my early results to my more recent results.

[Genz]

thing, I think the relation between pre- and postflop play is very nicely put forward in PNL: they say that many people think of it like there is a wall between preflop and postflop. This is obviously untrue and you REALLY need to tear it down.

When you are done analyzing your play, I recommend reading that book. There is a ton of stuff in there about stack sizes that helped my understanding of how the game works a LOT. I need to reread it pretty soon, though, and I don't really apply it in terms of the hit-or-miss style of play the describe in the first volume. I just keep a lot of stuff that's in it in mind.

[Grunch]

Preflop play is very important, because preflop is the road to postflop. What I mean is during preflop play you engineer your postflop situation. Yes very important. And they are not separate games. Its all a continuous flow.