Sopranos Season Finale Discussion

[4 High]

Wasn't Patsy's twin brother a rat?

[Thug Bubbles]

No, he was just gossiping about Tony and his mom. IIRC, it was concerning Tony trying to kill his mom.

[youtalkfunny]

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What evidence do you have of Patsy being a rat?

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Absolutely none. I was 100% wrong when I wrote that, and everything else I wrote about Patsy on this page. I don't know what I was thinking.

For the record:

--Patsy was not the guy in the car talking to the Feds. Remember Ray Curto? The guy who dropped dead in the car, right before he was about to give up Tony? Remember all the posts who said, "Who is this guy? Is that Patsy? He looks like Patsy!" I can only guess that over time, that image sunk into my brain that Patsy was in a car, giving info to a Fed--but a quick check of Wiki and hbo.com turns up nothing to support that.

--Patsy WAS seen again after the botched Silvio hit, most notably having drinks with his wife at Tony and Carm's place, dreaming of wedding bells because their kids were dating each other.

--Anything else I wrote about Patsy this week is almost certainly wrong, as well. I suck.

[Al Mirpuri]

I just saw the finale here in the UK. The ending was different for sure. I was expecting a bloodbath but Phil Leotardo got blown away earlier in the episode. The darkness with no sound was a nice touch and you definitely think Tony is going to get whacked ( I thought Paulie would be behind it.) The guy going to the loo and the guys sauntering in and Meadow rushing like crazy to be there...

I liked it. I am not sure whether it was a great ending or not. It could have ended just as cleverly but differently. He could have had a heart attack and died.

I must admit I got tired of it by this last series. When Chris blew away the writer guy in the writer guy's apartment I was not surprised. However, when the foot soldier won the lottery and hanged himself because they would not let him out of the outfit, that genuinely shocked me but that was at least one series earlier. People keep saying the greatest show ever. I am not sure about that.

[Max Raker]

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Pretentious is the wrong word, I think; especially when people are examining the show on a level even beyond what the writer expected. Elitist, or condescending is more appropriate.

Though Chase sounds like a prick, I know many people whom his quotes directly apply to. I'm amazed when people are 'endeared' to Tony or many other characters on the show. While I like their duplicity, cunning, and charm, I see them all as either willfully ignorant and passively participating (Carmella, Meadow, et al.) or monstrous (everybody else). Even when I laugh along with the characters or smile at their allure, I believe they should be punished/suffer for things they have done. This is why I wanted Tony to die.

Many just wanted him to die for the bloodshed or to get banal closure, and that is not what the show was about.

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All he had to say was I ended it the best way that I could, sorry if people didn't like it. Thanks for watching.

It seems like he thinks people hate it or something which I don't think is true. Most reviews were postive I thought.


I really wonder how much pressure there was on him (from HBO or peoples agents) to leave open the possibility of Gandolfini in a movie. They might not want to do it today but who is to say that in 5 years some of these people might want a 20 million dollar pay check.

[James282]

Just finished the episode, and this thread. Lots of good ideas and comments here... but one thing that strikes me immediately is using Chase's word as gospel as to what the episode implies or "means" - whether it be about Tony's death or anything else. Once an artist releases a work to the public for viewing, his opinion no longer matters from a critical point of view. He becomes a critic himself - and can point to things in the text and form a case just like any other literary critic can - but his word is not to be taken as truth without any supporting evidence. Worrying about what the author intended is known as the 'intentional fallacy,' and won't get you anywhere except a bad grade in your english class!

[raze]

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Patsy's gone, Tony's gone. The only one left is Paulie. Paulie just got "promoted" to the spot that has seen Richie, Gigi, Ralphie, Vito, and Carlo all meet their demise in one way or the other. And Paulie's newest friend is an orange cat--a cat who obsessed with Christopher's photo, until the very moment that Paulie met his fate. As soon as Paulie agreed to take the cursed job, the cat went right over to him. I think that's the end of Mr Gaultieri.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice, I never got the bit about the cat walking back over to Paulie.

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In summation, the Soprano crime family ceases to exist. Organized crime in New Jersey becomes a thing of the past.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a fact about the American mob crime families that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread: the five New York bosses are considered to be equals at the very top of the mob ranks. This is a given among all crime families in the U.S. and Canada (and there are dozens of them, not just five in New York plus New Jersey). Viewers probably would not know this just from watching The Sopranos, but Chase knows and respects this fact. Examples:

- New York bosses frequently took a position and measure of power over Tony (the Esplanade deal, hitting a very high ranking capo in Vito, almost hitting another capo in Ralph, the New York boss ordering and receiving the death of the cousin of the New Jersey boss; I'm sure there are more).

- "Carmine always maintained Jersey is nothing but a glorified crew" (Phil)

- Tony's response of "holy s--t" when Johnny Sack tells him of his plan to hit Carmine Sr.

My point is there is absolutely no way New Jersey would get away with killing New York boss, Phil Leotardo. Chase certainly has done enough research to know this. We should also note that Tony agreed to have Carmine Sr. clipped, but went back on his word. IMO Tony was killed in the final scene as retribution for Phil.

In response to the quote above: Phil's words were 'cut off the head and deal with the rest', meaning his family would probably induct the New Jersey family under a single capo under his New York.

[Thug Bubbles]

Nothing to get away with. He got the approval from the New York crew; Phil's own, in fact.

[Jay Riall]

Here is a list of films that completely suck dick because of the ending - Italian Job (ending a film with the bus hanging over a cliff - tell me wtf happened please!!!!), Layer Cake (main dude gets shot and then the film ends - DOES HE DIE OR WOT?!!?), Fight Clubs (Wot happenz after all teh buildings blow up like?!), Snatch (who gets the stone in the end!?!?! I MUST KNOW!!!!). All these films suck dick. Would not reccomend to people in this thread.

[raze]

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Nothing to get away with. He got the approval from the New York crew; Phil's own, in fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, that's very true, but I believe more is required ie. a sit-down with the rest of the NY bosses. Impossible, given that they aren't really included in the show. It's tough to pinpoint where Chase draws the line between the authenticity and practicality of producing a mob TV series.