Ftp stole my money

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
There HAS to be more evidence than simple chip dumping to base a claim to withold $14k

[/ QUOTE ]

No there doesn't. You seem to forget that you(eric jones) have admitted to creating a second account. That alone is grounds for banning and confiscation of funds.

Saying they may not be making things right in this case because they might look bad doesn't make sense since they have righted their wrongs in the past.

FTP has no obligation to post HHs. I believe that if eric had or did request them via email they would have been sent. I am also no ruling out the possibility that they did send him the HHs and he is just trying to stir [censored] up.

There are many possible reasons that FTPDoug has not been back.

1) He lost his job for criticizing FTP practices and getting involved in things like this
2) He was told to drop it or risk his job
3) He is very busy and doesn't have time
4) He looked into it, saw it was clear cut and doesn't care to "prove" anything

I agree with MicroBob that this was not handled as well as it should have been. At the very least FTP should cut down their response time on these matters. My guess is that for credit card fraud things can take significantly longer than we think. It's possible that the cards weren't stolen and eric got the numbers by sniffing wireless networks or something which would lead to the cards not being reported stolen until the victims received their monthly statements or whatever.

Now think about how long it takes you to review a session. For me it takes about an hour for every 100 hands. Now in this instance there are 8 different accounts to be investigated. Then consider that the legit accounts involved in eric's coverplay were probably also looked into in some detail and you have a fairly extensive investigation. 2.5 months is quite long, but I wouldn't find it difficult to believe that this sort of investigation could take a month or more.

[BurnleyMik]

You are missing the point edge..what i meant was that that the e-mails are the only thing anyone has seen that shows this case is even real! I take your point that they do not show anything at all except the time issue. I am not saying Eric is more credible than a site, but why would doug come on and try and give an explantion if he thought that eric already had an email detailing this?There are just way too many unknowns in this whole episode and we have very very few FACTS on which to base our judgements. All I want is for FTP to somehow (and I dont care how)just prove what they are saying aganst eric is true and I am sure that will put the mind of a lot of players, who frequent this site ,to rest. Including myself. I am just worried that if this case is true and I somehow manage to come across a fraudulent player and won his money off him, then would I get the same treatment and never even be able to fight my case??

LimitNinja said he had evidence that FTP lie and cheat...can u show us this then please ninja

[BurnleyMik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There HAS to be more evidence than simple chip dumping to base a claim to withold $14k

[/ QUOTE ]



Saying they may not be making things right in this case because they might look bad doesn't make sense since they have righted their wrongs in the past.

[/ QUOTE ]


No mate...FTPDoug made right there wrongs...without him I doubt that those cases would have been sorted

[Jan]

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of evidence do you want me to provide if I don't have access to my hand historys or nothing. As I said before I sent them my Id and utility bill when I knew I engaged in credit card fraud? How does that make sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting. In this post you seem to be saying you believe someone committed credit card fraud and you are just a victim.

Yesterday, in either this post or another, you said you didn't believe there was ever any credit card fraud. And now it looks like you have edited that out.

I have a few questions ericjones.

How long have you been playing online poker?

What site do you typically play on?

What is your screen name on that site?

How much have you won/lost in the past year before this horrible tragedy occurred?

What poker forums/poker books do you or have you read?

What's the first online site you've ever played at?

What's the most you've ever won at one sitting?

What games do you typically play online?

How many of your friends play poker online?

[Jan]

[ QUOTE ]
You are missing the point edge..what i meant was that that the e-mails are the only thing anyone has seen that shows this case is even real! I take your point that they do not show anything at all except the time issue. I am not saying Eric is more credible than a site, but why would doug come on and try and give an explantion if he thought that eric already had an email detailing this?There are just way too many unknowns in this whole episode and we have very very few FACTS on which to base our judgements. All I want is for FTP to somehow (and I dont care how)just prove what they are saying aganst eric is true and I am sure that will put the mind of a lot of players, who frequent this site ,to rest. Including myself. I am just worried that if this case is true and I somehow manage to come across a fraudulent player and won his money off him, then would I get the same treatment and never even be able to fight my case??

LimitNinja said he had evidence that FTP lie and cheat...can u show us this then please ninja

[/ QUOTE ]

The time frame in which FTP takes to investigate these cases is going to hurt FTP's business; BIG time! Even if it turns out that ericjones is lying and should have had his funds confiscated, knowing that FTP might freeze my funds (well, not mine as I play very small stakes) at any time and take over 2 months to finish their investigation is enough to not want to have any significant money on that site. And that time frame seems to be typical of FTP.

Jan

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]


No there doesn't. You seem to forget that you(eric jones) have admitted to creating a second account. That alone is grounds for banning and confiscation of funds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I claimed to exit, but one last thing. I'm really tired of people referring to opening a second account being justification for confiscating the money. There is nothing inherently wrong with opening a second account if the person opening the account didn't have fraudelent intentions, and just didn't know the rules. Allowing some company to just impose its rules and confiscate money for whatever reason is absurd. The obvious course of action when this happens, if the customer wasn't intending fraud, is to simply close one account and transfer funds to the other. Can't believe anybody thinks its just OK for them to take the money over such a minor infraction.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
No mate...FTPDoug made right there wrongs...without him I doubt that those cases would have been sorted

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an idiot. You completely missed the point. Doug looked into these issues in a number of other cases. In those where he found someone was wrongly accused FTP fixed the problem. Doug looked into this case and saw that it was clear cut that eric was dumped to.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing inherently wrong with opening a second account if the person opening the account didn't have fraudelent intentions, and just didn't know the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

The T&Cs of a site represent an agreement between you and the site. By checking I agree you are entering into a contract. Your argument is akin to signing a nondisclosure agreement for a company and then disclosing information and saying "Oh I didn't know it was against the rules." When a person enters into an agreement or contract it is their responsibility to read the provisions in the agreement. The fact that someone did not doesn't allow them to dodge the repurcussions of their actions.

[ QUOTE ]
The obvious course of action when this happens, if the customer wasn't intending fraud, is to simply close one account and transfer funds to the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the simplest course of action, but to say it is obviously the answer is silly. As Doug said creating the second account is suspicious. Strike 1. When both accounts end up associating almost solely with fraudsters that's strikes 2 and 3.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
I am just worried that if this case is true and I somehow manage to come across a fraudulent player and won his money off him, then would I get the same treatment and never even be able to fight my case??


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't worry about this. Eric was not involved with just 1 or 2 credit card fraudsters, he was involved with 8 of them. He also breached the rules by creating a 2nd account. And according to Doug he only played with about 20 players meaning that 40% of his play was with fraudulent accounts. Then consider the fact that both of Eric's accounts are brand new with no legit play history before running into these fraudsters.


So if you have just 1 account and happen to run across one or two fraudsters in your extensive play on Full Tilt you shouldn't have a problem. When you create a second account, have almost no legit play history, and are involved with a disproportionate number of credit card fraudsters you might run into a problem. And in my opinion he was given an appeal by Doug and deemed to be guilty.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

There is nothing inherently wrong with opening a second account if the person opening the account didn't have fraudelent intentions, and just didn't know the rules.



The T&Cs of a site represent an agreement between you and the site. By checking I agree you are entering into a contract. Your argument is akin to signing a nondisclosure agreement for a company and then disclosing information and saying "Oh I didn't know it was against the rules." When a person enters into an agreement or contract it is their responsibility to read the provisions in the agreement. The fact that someone did not doesn't allow them to dodge the repurcussions of their actions.

[/ QUOTE ]



What if (back in the day) Party found everyone who was receiving rakeback and confiscated ALL their funds?

There actually are varying degrees of violations which is gotmilk's point.

Most are not saying that Eric is in the right here (except for Burney I guess but I'm pretty much ignoring his posts now).

Even FTPDoug specifically stated that starting a 2nd account is definitely not going to be the reason for confiscation of funds there. It was just something they noticed and it perhaps got the ball rolling on their investigation to find out what was going on here.