New Fight Question

[Blarg]

I wonder how much serious training these guys really go through with weapons of opportunity. It's very different knowing you can use, say, a teakettle like a pair of brass knuckles than it is actually being proficient swinging a teakettle around. Couldn't any martial artist pick up a teakettle and be just as good with it?

If you're talking booby traps or camouflage, sure, the spec ops guy has it way over the others. But especially given the random nature of weapons of opportunity, I wonder if we're giving spec ops guys more credit for training in them than they deserve.

I do think they would likely be quicker to recognize them and thus start using them. But maybe not, depends on the guys involved probably. Many streetfighters are more than happy to grab anything handy, and lots of martial arts emphasize that, too. I can't imagine someone trained in kali not grabbing anything remotely like a stick he sees, or anything pointy or sharp.

[DeadMoney_J]

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I wonder how much serious training these guys really go through with weapons of opportunity. It's very different knowing you can use, say, a teakettle like a pair of brass knuckles than it is actually being proficient swinging a teakettle around. Couldn't any martial artist pick up a teakettle and be just as good with it?

If you're talking booby traps or camouflage, sure, the spec ops guy has it way over the others. But especially given the random nature of weapons of opportunity, I wonder if we're giving spec ops guys more credit for training in them than they deserve.

I do think they would likely be quicker to recognize them and thus start using them. But maybe not, depends on the guys involved probably. Many streetfighters are more than happy to grab anything handy, and lots of martial arts emphasize that, too. I can't imagine someone trained in kali not grabbing anything remotely like a stick he sees, or anything pointy or sharp.

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I can accept what you're saying. I concur that especially with certain forms, the MAer is going to utilize their enviroment also. I guess, I'm looking at it from the synergetic aspect in the scenario of them starting off at different locations. Once you incorporate having to locate the target, assess the situation, develop a plan, and execute your strategy (all of these things could either occur very rapidly or be a deliberate cycle in which the SOF individual would design it around the time-frame most conducive to his strengths), I have to say that the SOF individual has a clear and definitive advantage.

Oh and yes, during advanced follow-up CQB training (some in prelim training also but not to the same extent), the use of ones enviroment (to include natural and man-made objects) is stressed to develop an asymmetric advantage.

[cardman98]

seal all the way

[Zim]

I'd like to see you demonstrate that. You're going to kick his legs, while staying out of his range. Intresting. Maybe you can use your special combo by pressing B up and A at the same time first to soften him up, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSiE9Ed8jW4

This was a touch ugly, but ... there you go.

As for the boxer's credentials:

Williams may be aging, but he is ranked 8 in the NABF organisation, and was NABF champion as late as in november (over a year after this fight). And being a former IBF world champion he is not a no namer.

[Blarg]

Given that sort of a set-up, you may well be right. I'm thinking more like just a fight on the street, in a bar, or walking around the neighborhood. Your scenario sounds almost like a hunt.

[Blarg]

NABF? Now there's a prestigious organization.

The guy's an ex-champion, who doesn't look in particularly great shape. It's easy enough to agree that boxing isn't everything, but let's not claim it every time some boxer loses a fight. This guy wasn't even punching when the kicker got in his range, or pursuing when the guy got out of his range and had no balance. What was he waiting for? Not a lotta brains in that guy.

[Zim]

After posting that last clip, I searched around youtube for any fight with a boxing legend against another style.

I found this one with Mohammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki.

This one really sucks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Wx1xRDxRk

I believe it went on for about 15 rounds like that. It was declared a draw. With Ali dancing around and Inoki kicking his shins.

But there you go. Once you move out of the constraints of what you are trained for ... your skillset gets dilluted considerably.

Best,
Z.

[Zim]

Agreed.

He looked in bad shape, the fight kinda sucked ... and to be honest, he didn't look like he even wanted to be there.

Probably was a bit hard up for cash.

As Smash was referring to elite boxers in peak condition, it probably doesn't prove much. That said, I've trained in Muay Thai for a bit, and fought against a few boxers ... and I've found most boxers go into shock after getting hit in the leg for the first time.

The more skilled they are, the more constrained they are by their technique (particularly against knee smashes, boxers tend to bob into those) I've actually found it easier to beat skilled boxers than amateurs. However, I've never sparred any top level pro boxer, of course.

And I have to say, watching clips of Tyson in his prime working on a heavy bag is simply chilling.

[Blarg]

Foreman used to actually bust open heavy bags with his punches.

[DeadMoney_J]

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Your scenario sounds almost like a hunt.

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You are actually very right about that. It is all about who establishes themselves more in the role of the hunter as opposed to the hunted that develops a decisive edge in conflict.