Some Stuff About PUA (very long)

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- A lot of the stuff you guys are trying to interpret as evolutionary biology probably has a strong cultural basis, too. The idea of what a 'real man' is changes from culture to culture and age to age; in the Victorian era, for example, manhood was synonymous with self-restraint, a 'stiff upper lip' and the ability to provide. This is the Age of Baller, and our idealized images have changed accordingly. Plus, a lot of these traits - selfish egoism, complete disregard for the feelings / opinions of others, willingness to move on at the slightest provocation, etc etc., seem like lousy traits for providers & fathers, which makes a purely evolutionary explanation problematic.




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This paragraph is very indicative of 2 things.

a) You misunderstand just about every aspect of PUA
b) You have not been listening to what many people have been saying in this mess of a thread

It's really a waste trying to talk to you about it and I think it's really stupid for you to make a thread and then completely ignore all relevant points made. You've done more pointless arguing than you have discussing the topic of the thread.

Which leads me to believe you don't want to discuss it at all, so I'm not sure wtf you were doing starting a thread in the first place.

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I wanted more specificity. I feel gypped.

[A_C_Slater]

"Anything is one of a million paths. Therefore, a PUA must keep in mind that a path is only a path; if he feels that he should not follow it, he must not stay with it under any conditions. His decision to keep on that path or to leave it must be free of fear or ambition. He must look at every path closely and deliberately. There is a question that a PUA has to ask mandatorily:

Does this path have a heart?

All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. However, a path without a heart is never enjoyable. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy, it does not make a PUA work at liking it; it makes for a joyful journey; as long as a man follows it, he is one with it." -- Don Juan Matus


I think the crux of Anacardo's dillema is that he feels the path a PUA usually takes lacks heart. And maybe he wants a PUA advocate to admit it. (I had replaced the word "warrior" with PUA in the above.)

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If you talk to anyone who knows a lick about PUA, he'll tell you that being alpha is about being self-restrained, controlled, and being a provider.

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selfish egoism, complete disregard for the feelings / opinions of others, willingness to move on at the slightest provocation, etc etc., seem like lousy traits for providers & fathers, which makes a purely evolutionary explanation problematic.

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This little passage is so ridiculously biased, and people have been saying this entire thread that these AREN'T PUA traits. These may be traits of some Pick-Up Artists, but they are not PUA traits. Understand the difference.

You're applying your biased observations to everything PUA, and it's so wrong. ANd when people TELL you it's wrong, you don't listen. So again why start the thread?

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Am I incorrect in nothing that Cardo is including PUA things that people who esteem PUA's healthy side would rather not see included -- but which are there nevertheless?

I mean, not all PUA is positive. Isn't it quite likely and even admitted that it's pretty possible to abuse PUA ideas and that a lot of guys probably do? And are attracted to PUA for negative reasons as well as positive? (In the public mind in general, aren't those negative connotations of PUA far more common than positive ones?)

So it seems to me that when you say Cardo is misunderstanding PUA, it's not correct. He is just maybe mis-emphasizing, discussing the negative without balancing it out enough by bringing in the positive aspects. (Which positive aspects some people may not even be interested in anyway.)

So it seems more fair to say he is taking an unfair slant on PUA than that he doesn't understand it. PUA isn't monolothic, from what people have been saying, but has good and bad both.

That sounds more reasonable than what either you OR cardo were saying. You were like mirror images of each other, each exhibiting opposite prejudices toward a subject that's deeper and better rounded than either prejudice. Alamo's take on things seems far more rounded and developed.

[traz]

I don't think there's anything wrong with PUA, I think there's bad things about alot of the people who are attracted to the idea. I'm trying to emphasize that PUA is what you make of it. It doesn't have to be immoral, it's only immoral in the hands of those are already immoral.

If you want to be all holier-than-thou and still successfully practice various aspects of PUA, it's my contention that it's absolutely possible.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with PUA, I think there's bad things about alot of the people who are attracted to the idea. I'm trying to emphasize that PUA is what you make of it. It doesn't have to be immoral, it's only immoral in the hands of those are already immoral.

If you want to be all holier-than-thou and still successfully practice various aspects of PUA, it's my contention that it's absolutely possible.

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That sounds sensible, and almost verbatim what I was thinking and what Alamo seemed to be describing.

[El Diablo]

Blarg,

Yes, the Force can be used for both good and evil!

[El Diablo]

Cardo,

"The idea of what a 'real man' is changes from culture to culture and age to age"

I think you don't give enough credit to the fact that there are some universal traits regarding "alpha males" and whatnot that transcend time/culture/etc. As a rule, there are definitely certain characteristics that women are more attracted to than others. That has nothing to do with "PUA gimmicks" or facades or whatever.

[tpir]

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This is all pretty primal, animalistic, lowest-common-denominator stuff. The difference is, I look at this stuff, try to see it for what it is, and laugh at it. The dumb-animal parts of my makeup mostly just annoy me, though they can also be fun, and I'll never be rid of them, and I wouldn't choose to be rid of them even if I could. Some of you guys, on the other hand, really seem to revel in this [censored], and I think that's kinda sad / hilarious. But you go your way, and I'll go mine.

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After all the posts in this thread this is what you came up with???

L O L O L O L

I could spend time pointing out all the flaws in your claims, but the idea of you trotting out your tired defenses life-tilts me. False dilemmas appear to be your favorite flavor of fallacy, so I will give you one of my own: You are either the king of emo or you are an enormous idiot. Sorry man, I swear it's nothing personal.

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True that is, El Yoda.

[guids]

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You guys seem to be just as retarded as teh guys who think PUAs are sleaze balls.

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Looking at this comment, I cannot help but to think pot/kettle.

It really caught my attention that you seem to like to come off as superior in this whole PUA-discussion, being the natural that you seemingly without a single doubt in your mind are, but apart from some cheap shots, and judging people that you really don't know, based on your own undoubtedly superior values, I haven't seen you actually going into *why* we seem to be so retarded.

What BK says makes a hell of a lot of sense to me, and maybe we retards have an advantage over you, something that seems to never have occured to you.

Looking at BK's post, he actually studied social interaction, group psychology and female psychology. Hell, maybe he even was on the receiving end of the things he described, being the emotional tampon for some girl he wanted for himself. I know that I was.

And I know I studied the things that he is talking about, and made big changes to my life.

I learned how the real world works, as opposed to the stuff my parents taught me, society taught me, and the movies taught me. Factors not to be underestimated, as you get exposed to them every single day.

So I started doing things differently, learned some really valuable life-lessons, was able to explain why past relationships failed, started working out and took boxing classes and learned to fight. I improved and reinvented myself.

One thing that learning PUA material and the more profound material teaches you is to look up and into the world, as opposed to rigidly sticking to one's own views. It teaches you you might be wrong in your own convictions.

Not really a fun time, as you come to understand that a lot of what you believed in was false. That can make, depending on the person, for some pretty heavy times. I myself still sometimes feel that I understand stuff I really would not have liked to know.

Yet, I am so glad that I went through this process. It helped me to cure a depression by fighting the fights I had to fight to overcome said depression, as opposed to drugging myself with Prozac and whatnot and live the rest of my life hiding instead of fighting.

This is what PUA learned me, to go for what I want, to fight my battles, to live exactly the way I want to live, to appreciate, yet be critical of others and myself, and to not to judge too fast.

How this makes me retarded is beyond me, but I am sure you have pretty good reasons. After all, you seem to be great at life.

As you stated a couple of days before, it seems hilarious to you that people pay to learn this stuff (which was directed to me, showing you jumped to conclusions, but as said, you seem pretty convinced that you are right, cos... well...after all it is YOU, guids, that is thinking this, how could you possibly be wrong? Right? That is the impression you give, fwiw).

To me it is hilarious that you seem to be unable to step back and see things from a distance, as opposed to rigidly sticking to your own views on things, in the meantime not appreciating that everybody has it's own reality, and we are not all born as the natural that you in your own mind seemingly are.

However, disdaining people that try to improve themselves is not what a real natural would do, because a real natural would appreciate the effort that people make to better themselves, recognizing the sometimes huge mental leaps and tenacity this obviously takes.

So it might be useful to concentrate on yourself, you come off as pretty good at it anyway, and ask yourself if you are really as cool as you seem to think you are.

If, after that, you wish to have a mature and constructive discussion about the do's and don'ts regarding PUA, I will be happy to discuss with you, until that time I remain with my pot and kettle.

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how do you pick up chicks when you whine like one?



I just meant, you, bk, and naj are retarded because you keep making blanket assumptions...like people are doing to you. That is all. I dont hate on PUA (unless its thebruiser500), I think most would agree. im pretty sure I post in every single thread about chicks (becuae it is one fo the few topics I know front and back), and Im pretty sure that me and bk have never had an argument between us, I think he is cool. You sound like a lady on the other hand. Yes, I think it is lame to pay for lessons, but I also think its lame to pay for poker lessons. When. there. are. tons. of. free. resources.