Chris Benoit and Wife found dead

[4thstreetpete]

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All,

"Here's the reality as I know it. Chris Benoit had probably taken steroids for almost his entire career. He broke in during a period where you couldn't be a star at 5-8, and his idol was Dynamite Kid, who was juiced to the gills and ultimately paid a heavy price for it (he's currently wheelchair-bound and destitute). Benoit was gigantic for most of his career, and I can only remember one time, in the late 90s in WCW, that for whatever reason he shrunk down. He was the first guy to call me after WWE had the locker room meeting announcing the institution of a Wellness Policy after the death of Eddy Guerrero, wondering if I knew what the hell was going on. I said he probably should have known more than I did, but apparently all he knew was what we all saw on WWE.com. I was told that when he went down for neck surgery and was going to be off TV for a full year, he refused to come off the steroids for fear of shrinking up. I was also told that he and Nancy had fought over the steroid issue many times in the past. In 2007, he was a 40-year-old man who was 5-9 and 220 pounds (though legal documents claimed as high as 250) with less than 10% bodyfat, and he was built like that despite being on the road 200 days a year. Physiologically, that's impossible."

That's from the writeup posted a few posts above this. Reading that, all the posts like this one (and many other similar ones):

"As I said earlier, it's hard to be addicted to substances and it not be pretty well known throughout the industry and its fans, especially someone who has been around as long as Chris Benoit. I've never heard his name come up in regards to steroids or painkillers."

earlier in the thread seem pretty ludicrous. I imagine some of you guys will be reassessing how much stock to put in "insider" wrestling web sites.

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EL D, I don't think this is a fair assesment of this situation here. I don't know who made that second statement but what we have on this thread is a lot of casual fans and longtime fans giving their thoughts on a very tragic situation. The gravity of it is only beginning to surface and the fallout of this could be huge. At the beginning of this thread there was only speculation as no one really knows what was happening, only later did news slowly trickle out.

There are various "insider" wrestling websites that go about reporting about the business of wrestling and the behind the scenes but they all walk a very fine line about what 'should' be reported. I'll start by giving an example using the Figure Four Weekly article posted above.

BTW, that Figure Four Weekly article above is actually a weekly newsletter that is written by Bryan Alvarez that he has on his site for paid members. Peterpjames shouldn't have posted the copyrighted article in it's (almost) entirety here on 2+2 and it should be taken down by the mods.

Bryan Alvarez writes the newsletter and radio shows about pro wrestling and would be what you consider an insider. Although he has specifically alluded to that almost all the wrestlers involved in the business have at one time or another used anabolic steriods, that's just part of the business. But here's the kicker. I'm actually a subscriber to the site FWIW, I don't ever remember Bryan Alvarez ever mentioning Chris Benoit's name with regards to steriods. The reason? Well, they're friends first of all and these reporters all walk a very fine line with what they are reporting. This is their livelyhood and they would never want to write something about someone who might cost one of their friend's their jobs. Wrestling doesn't have a commision and a union, and if the wrestlers lose their jobs it's not like there's a lot of other big promotions for the wrestlers to find work if they ever get heat from their own company. Does that make them any less credible? Debateable.

As stated earlier, Alvarez did mention that more people are on the juice in this business than you can imagine. He never ever called out Benoit's name, but from a common sense point of view Benoit who 40 years old, 5 foot 8 and jacked to the gills is probably a good candadite. What we have here is a lot of naive people who just because they never hear Benoit's name associated with steriods automatically assume that he's not on the juice. People are naive to these things when they hear these things about their hero. These are the same people who think that maybe 50% of the wresters are using steriods when the actual numbers are more like 90% and that's the low side.

This isn't only a problem with pro wrestling either, it also extends itself to pro sports as well. The situation with major league baseball is getting some attention as well.

Think of it this way, how many people on this board occasionally like to smoke a bit of pot just on their own time just for fun. Now imagine if you're in pro sports where there's so much pressure for you to perform and with millions of dollars on the line. You could lose your job if you don't perform. You see everyone else around you taking substances and you could either A) be the next Barry Bonds with millions of dollars worth in salaries and endorsements etc, etc or B) end up being Joe Schmoe the following year down in the minors and soon working a regular 9-5 office job.

Up here in Canada we have TSN (the equivalent of ESPN) where they wanted to interview a former wrestler named Lance Storm for their show Off the Record, a sports variety talk show. Lance who has many friends in major league baseball and works out with them wanted to come on and talk about the problem with steroids in baseball. Guess what, they told him they did not want to touch that subject. Again, the reason why....TSN makes their living by covering pro sports. If a scandal ever broke out this could affect a lot of people's livelyhood. They're wary of walking that line. But if you ask most insiders, a lot of them do know that substance abuse is rampant in pro sports but a lot of these information is not made public.

[MikeyPatriot]

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"As I said earlier, it's hard to be addicted to substances and it not be pretty well known throughout the industry and its fans, especially someone who has been around as long as Chris Benoit. I've never heard his name come up in regards to steroids or painkillers."

earlier in the thread seem pretty ludicrous. I imagine some of you guys will be reassessing how much stock to put in "insider" wrestling web sites.

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Yeah, but a lot of the other stuff has been reaffirmed by Chris's friends after this ordeal. Alvarez states that "I always thought Chris Benoit was the nicest guy you could ever hope to meet." Other people have said similar things.

Again, though, I haven't read much of anything intensely in the past 5 or so years. I've just been relaying what I interpreted from what I've read...or not read. 'Sheets don't report that wrestlers X, Y, and Z are on 'roids because 1) a lot of the industry probably is and 2) that isn't really news. 'Sheets do report things like people missing shows, backstage altercations, and serious drug problems/rehab.

It's not surprising to find out ANY pro wrestler takes steroids or painkillers.

Clearly I was wrong that Benoit wasn't addicted or abusing steroids (if they were in the house, WWE claimed police did not find 'roids). But what I said was what I believed according to what I knew of Chris Benoit.

[4thstreetpete]

I just picked up the paper today and on the very front page the ongoing story of Benoit continues with a blurb, Was it Roid Rage? I also saw it on many news outlets, I guess this isn't surprising as the news media always love to sensationalize these things.

But more news are becoming public and it could get real ugly for the WWE. It's almost a sure thing that Benoit will have steriods in his system when the results come in. This is quite possibly the biggest pro wrestling scandal in history. It's always extra heinous when an innocent child is involved and has gotten a lot of mainstream press. A lot of dirt is going to come out the next few weeks about the business and the WWE is reeling right now.

I really do hope this changes the business. At least bring in more awareness and hopefully saving more lives down the line.

[Burdzthewurd]

Sidenote: As terrible as this is, does anyone think this have any affect on TNA, business-wise (people turning away from WWE or enforcing their own Wellness Policy)?

[Borgland]

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Benoit and wife argue over care for mentally retarded 7 year old

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For those who didnt read this article a doctor interviewed in it admits treating Benoit for low testosterone levels likely due to steroid usage.

It also mentions how "roid rage" isnt the only side effect. Paranoia and depression are also associated with roid use.

It goes on to mention a possible link between Benoit and a company that may have supplied him roids.

[JasonK]

Absolutely sickening.

[The Stranger]

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I really do hope this changes the business. At least bring in more awareness and hopefully saving more lives down the line.

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I hope it puts an end to the business.

And I used to be a hardcore fan, driving hundreds of miles to WWF/WWE/indy/ECW shows, reading the sheets and the BB's nearly every day, and never missing a televised show from about 1997 to about 2002.

The list goes on and on of the dark side of wrestling, the guys who end up dead or crippled. For what? Pointless violence as a means of entertainment?

Sure, in the late 90's the characters became more "reality-based" and less cartoonish. Those of us who were Hulkamaniacs weren't eight years old anymore, so the characters had to be more three-dimensional. Families involved in storylines, backstage friendships highlighted, "shoot-angles"--storylines based on reality. We still marked out. We believed the story about Benoit, family man, work ethic blah blah blah. Story from whom? Jim Ross? "Inside reporters," who as it was pointed out earlier don't want to ruin the careers of their friends?

Wrestling is a brutal, brutal world, and I'm not really seeing the redeeming value right now. Not even a sick suplex.

Wrestling is fake. In more ways than I ever knew.

[gusmahler]

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That's from the writeup posted a few posts above this. Reading that, all the posts like this one (and many other similar ones):

"As I said earlier, it's hard to be addicted to substances and it not be pretty well known throughout the industry and its fans, especially someone who has been around as long as Chris Benoit. I've never heard his name come up in regards to steroids or painkillers."

earlier in the thread seem pretty ludicrous. I imagine some of you guys will be reassessing how much stock to put in "insider" wrestling web sites.

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I think most "insiders" take it as a given that most wrestlers are on 'roids. Therefore, it's not news and not reported. When "smarts" talk about wrestlers with "substance" problems, they generally mean painkillers or narcotics, not 'roids.

[Blarg]

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The body of work has nothing to do with the personality of the person doing the art. The fact that you can't separate that -- hell, I highly doubt you enjoy wrestling or have even see many of his matches -- shows how limited your scope on life is.

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I hope this was intentionally hilarious.

[Blarg]

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I thought this guy was the classiest person in wrestling? A true gentle soul in a sea of [censored]. I guess the information that floats around the internet is never really the whole story and maybe on the button was onto something.

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I don't doubt that everybody thought this was the case, and that for most of his life this was. Something changed, he snapped, we don't know. It isn't like it was just rumor and assumption that had wrestling fans comparing him to Steve Nash. (and that's why this is all so much more tragic)

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What was the basis for any kind of substantive belief that people knew him? It seems like rumor and assumption is exactly the basis for the comparison. Celebrity/athlete culture seems to thrive on people feeling associations with these people based solely on what the media and athletes themselves choose to report. Aren't there tons of instances of professional athletes being considered "good guys" just because they knew how to spin themselves with the people who would shape their image?

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When Grace Kelly and Princess Diana died, there were people saying they were the most important women on earth in the last 1000 years, that they deserved sainthood, etc. People are just f*cked in the head when it comes to celebrities, they absolutely can't help it.

If only they give as much of a sh*t about the people around them as the safely distant people they imagine they know a damn thing about.