The more I've read the more I've lost money

[tmiwhatever]

I’m sort of in the same boat as the OP of the thread. I have been playing online (PP and PS) for the last 15 months. I did jump around a bit mixing it up and my self as well. I finally decided to focus on Limit only at the .5/10 level and concentrate on improving my game and not move up until I was kicking butt. I do not want to be a pro just build a roll for the next level while having fun.

I heard about PT, saw the value immediately and purchased it I have almost every hand I have ever played. I also have always been a lurker at many different poker forums. I have read several books including SSHE (read 2 twice and have picked thru it many times). I got the pre-flop hand spread sheet that condenses the starting hands from this site. I have never played more than one table at a time.

I have a little over 36,000 hands in my PT data base (I know drop in the bucket). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have a total of 4,706 hands of Limit at the .5/10 level. (Even a smaller drop). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My stats for all 4,706 are VP$IP = 21.29, PFR% = 5.31, total aggression = 1.47 and BB/100 = 5.43

Since I have re-dedicated my efforts the stats for the last 2,959 hands are.
VP$IP = 19.70, PFR% = 6.35, total aggression = 2.09 and BB/100 = 9.44

I have seen some improvement in my game and winnings but, nothing to brag about at those limits. Also I feel I’m a long way from crushing the limit. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Don't get me wrong I'm not playing to have good stats I'm playing to win and hopefully good stats will be the result.
It's a way to show you where I've been and where I'm at now, I think? If you have any questions fire away because I'm serious about crushing .5/.10 .


[ QUOTE ]
QUOTE: The thing is, if you play correctly, over the LONG RUN, your results will approach what it should be. [ QUOTE ]


Can I impose on you to please define this a little more for me? I realize the long run will vary from person to person since, natural talent, learning rate, focus, dedication.Etc… Etc. varies from person to person. Is the long run some number of hands at the same micro limit level and at the same poker room? Game play difficulty varies from site to site or am I splitting hairs. I have hands at .5/.10 mostly at PS. Feel free to use any stat you wish I have them.


[ QUOTE ]
QUOTE: When you cannot beat the nanolimits, the solution is NOT to move up limits. It's really that simple. You should be CRUSHING nanolimit games before you move up to raked microlimit games.


This is my exact goal but, what constitutes crushing them? Please give me some stats to shoot for. I know it is not exact but a range of values like between xx and yy BB/100 or whatever values most people could and would agree on equals crushing a limit. Also for when I do move up would those values change from limit to limit? If I ever make it to $1/$2 I doubt I would go beyond that.



One other question about getting a read on the table and players. At the nanolimit games players move in and out so frequently that Poker Tracker and PAHUD barely get a meaningful read. What is a NFG like me supposed to do? How do you play opposite poker when you can’t figure out what the opposite is? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

[ QUOTE ]
My bad. I think I may it clear that I had never played those limits and wasn't sure about how it plays. Sorry if I lead anybody to the wrong conclusions.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh... fwiw i agree with everything you had said in here up until this.

and fwiw i know i have no chance to beat the nano limits, there is no way i could 'crush' them with people calling and raising every single street. i still do pretty well in my 2/4 and 3/6 games tho.

i think it was actually ed miller that wrote a great post on the amount of callers and how it can effect your game; it just doesnt make sense to play TAG when you get to a certain level of callers, LPA at a certain level is optimum strategy. this is why learning to play at play money tables is BAD for your game. i think the same can be said for a lot of nano limit games.

[Martijnf]

I'm also still relatively new to poker, been playing for about 2 months now, off and on and only really a lot the past two weeks (couple of hours a day).

I think starting at nano-levels is a great idea just to get the hang of the game but once I started to feel confident at those levels I deposited a bit more money and started playing .25/.50 and I'm learning more, earning more and having more fun.

Basically I agree with what some people here have said, the gameplay at a lot of the nano tables is so messed up that you're really not learning much. you can get reads from opponents that don't play according to a certain standard, apart from that they're maniacs, but I don't think playing against a table full of maniacs is going to teach you much. Yes, if you are a good player you should be cleaning house, but it's also easy to get a downswing which, this early in your poker-carreer could be extremely demotivating.

I moved up to .10/.20 limit fairly quickly which already is a much better game and I think that with a little reading, posting and playing a few thousand hands at nano (maybe like 2k in my case including sit 'n go's) you can risk depositing $50-75 and playing .25/.50 at say PartyPoker.

You'll learn more and the games are still fairly easy to beat. If you start losing excessively, drop down to .10/.20 and regain your confidence. Sure it's cool to say you once deposited $5 and worked yourself up to a bankroll of $1000 from there through all the limits but I don't think it's necessary at all, even the micro-limits are loose enough and filled with enough bad players to make it worth your while to play there.

Previous poster said: "this is why learning to play at play money tables is BAD for your game. i think the same can be said for a lot of nano limit games. "

And I couldn't agree more.