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#51
07-09-2005, 04:25 PM
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Nolan Ryan
While I think that Winning Percentage can be misleading over a season, over 25 years, a great pitcher is going to win more than 52% of his decisions. If you are going to sit here and tell me that a great pitcher is someone who goes out there and is slightly better than a coinflip to win that game, then good for you.
Kevin Appier also pitched on some god awful teams, yet his winning percentage is .552 and his career era is .75 better than the league avg over that span. Both of those numbers are better than Ryan's, but no one's talking about Kevin Appier as one of the all-time greats. Why? Because he isn't. But neither is Nolan Ryan. 
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#52
07-09-2005, 04:32 PM
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Re: Nolan Ryan
Nolan Ryan would get my vote for the most overrated player ever...although Jeter would be up there. Don't misunderstand me, both are Hall of Famers....but neither of them live up to their reputation.
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#53
07-09-2005, 05:03 PM
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Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] McGwire "definitely peaked higher"? 1998 can't touch Thomas's 1994. [/ QUOTE ] Can't touch??? Maybe I'm missing something, but McGwire's Eqa was higher in 98 than Thomas' in 94. And he played 40 more games. [/ QUOTE ] Doug, I was using the "adjusted for all-time" stats. Wow, it makes a hell of a difference.
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#55
07-10-2005, 12:45 AM
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Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, this doesn't change the fact that McGwire's a Hall of Fame caliber 1B. But Frank Thomas was much better and no one cares - why? Frank hits a lot of doubles. Doubles aren't sexy. [/ QUOTE ] You are wrong. It's amazing all of the stuff that gets said in these threads when looking up stats is easy and takes all of 20 seconds. The only thing Frank Thomas did much better than McGwire is hit for average. Their career OPS are nearly identical: .982 and .997. I also don't see how a guy with a career OPS near 1.000 can be overrated. [/ QUOTE ] Frank Thomas has 900 more PA, a more OBP heavy OPS, and was, funnily enough, a lot more healthy than McGwire was. McGwire got 600+ PA only 5 times in his career; Frank 10. He also had a much higher peak (Frank's is one of the best ever) and he's still kicking ass (check out that .250/.372/.736 line). Thomas will likely end up with 25% more PA at around the same caliber hitting or better, yet McGwire will go in on the first ballot and Thomas will probably wait around and sneak in on a weak ballot. [/ QUOTE ] Don't be foolish, Jack. Frank Thomas is a first ballot lock for the Hall. And McGwire shouldn't even be considered for the Hall, with his .262 average and roided up homer count. [/ QUOTE ] For once, I completely agree with dead.
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#56
07-10-2005, 03:44 AM
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Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] McGwire "definitely peaked higher"? 1998 can't touch Thomas's 1994. [/ QUOTE ] Can't touch??? Maybe I'm missing something, but McGwire's Eqa was higher in 98 than Thomas' in 94. And he played 40 more games. [/ QUOTE ] Doug, I was using the "adjusted for all-time" stats. Wow, it makes a hell of a difference. [/ QUOTE ] They have both of them there for a reason. I'm actually not entirely sure what the difference is, but I think it is this: adjusted for season: adjusts for the league average adjusted for all-time: uses "z-scores" or something similar to measure how difficult it is to be dominant that year. If I'm correct, what the stats are saying is that Frank's 94 season was more dominant compared to the best players in the game, while McGwire's 98 was more dominant compared to the average player. It's not clear to me that adjusted for all time is necessarily better. McGwire actually had a better adjusted for all time Eqa in 93 than Thomas in 94 (in half as many games). In 96 he had a slightly higher all-time adjusted eqa than 98 (still below Frank's) in 130 games. Chances are, if Frank finished the season his eqa would have dropped some. It's arguable whether or not his 94 season was better than McGwire's best season. I'm sure none of this is new to you, and you decided that Frank's season was better, even though maybe 4 fewer singles is the entire difference in all-time eqa's. As usual, you greatly overstated the difference by using words like "can't touch."
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#57
07-10-2005, 04:24 AM
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Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
Mark McGwire shouldn't even be considered for the Hall? Um... right.
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#58
07-10-2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
I don't understand how McGuire is overrated, seems like the argument Jack is making is more for how Thomas is underrated.
The argument against Ripkin ignores eras, which is dump. Compare Cal's numbers to his peers and they look a lot better. Any god fearing stathead who came up between 96-00 will tell you that the answer is obviously Joe Carter. Jeter is 2nd.
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#59
07-10-2005, 12:08 PM
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Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
[ QUOTE ]
Any god fearing stathead who came up between 96-00 will tell you that the answer is obviously Joe Carter. [/ QUOTE ] Good answer. He also went for .252/.282/.445 in the postseason, despite the retarded claims that he was Monsieur Clutch.
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#60
07-10-2005, 02:42 PM
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Re: Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time
[ QUOTE ]
He also went for .252/.282/.445 in the postseason, despite the retarded claims that he was Monsieur Clutch. [/ QUOTE ] a game winning HR in the World Series will do that for ya
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