The hardest spot in micro stakes poker? JJ from the SB

[Profish2285]

You are correct, c/f would feel like wasting a big hand. But take into account when the Q/K/A, doesnt hit and villain feels his top pair is good, or decides to keep bluffing into you. Both of these situations would more than likely be with hands that villain would never have played in the first place btw. That doesnt make up for the times we have to throw away a big hand? Oh and I wouldnt flat call here ever, because we are oop, the hand just becomes impossibly difficult I think. But if we were OTB, then is this really a bad move?

[yegon]

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You are correct, c/f would feel like wasting a big hand. But take into account when the Q/K/A, doesnt hit and villain feels his top pair is good, or decides to keep bluffing into you. Both of these situations would more than likely be with hands that villain would never have played in the first place btw.

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what about when the Q/K/A doesn't flop and he has QQ,KK,AA and gets 2+ streets of value from us? We are never comfortable with this OOP.



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Oh and I wouldnt flat call here ever, because we are oop, the hand just becomes impossibly difficult I think. But if we were OTB, then is this really a bad move?

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I can't think of an example but I have no problem with flat calling IP with JJ.

[Unknown Soldier]

this is a pretty easy c/f. Let's think about villain's range here. After the pf call it's going to be pretty damn tight unless you have been 3b him alot. I'd say something like TT+/AQ+ maybe 99/AJ sometimes. That board hit his range hard. The only hand that a bet is good against in that range is QQ (KK too, but he prob 4b).

[Gelford]

Vs some that plays like that, it is a c/f ... but there are a lot of villians that like to mess around with position when they hold SCs

[matrix]

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- we are OOP
- there are 3 overcards that will make our life hard if any of them flops
- the pot is big enough to try to win it preflop


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JJ is a made hand with SD value - we want to get it to SD if we can.

If you are just raising to try and win the hand preflop then what cards you happen to have don't matter in the slightest and you are effectively turning your hand into 72o.

Turning JJ into 72o is wastng a good hand cos JJ can flop a set and will sometimes make a solid Overpair - I *want* to see a flop with JJ I *don't want* to build a big pot OOP with a marginal hand like JJ.

I don't always flat here I do 3bet JJ here and there but when I do I realise that I am sacrficing a little short term equity for shania.

[Unknown Soldier]

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Vs some that plays like that, it is a c/f ... but there are a lot of villians that like to mess around with position when they hold SCs

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This is very villain dependent obviously, but I really don't think you see too much messing about in 3b pots lower then 200nl/400nl. c/f is definitely the way to go against a random tag.

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- we are OOP
- there are 3 overcards that will make our life hard if any of them flops
- the pot is big enough to try to win it preflop

you can be a monster postflop player but what would you do with this hand if you just called pf? c/f on the flop? Seems like wasting a good hand to me.

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yegon pretty much said it here. Also we bet JJ for value

JJ is dificult to play oop, so we don`t mind taking it down right away with a 3bet, especialy considering that an overcard will flop about 57% of the time, putting us in a tought spot, since we can be bluffed out of the pot.

[Unknown Soldier]

not 3b JJ is fine, it all depends on his calling range. If JJ is ahead of that, then 3b away, if it isn't then I'd call.


Making the hand easier is not our goal here.

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not 3b JJ is fine, it all depends on his calling range. If JJ is ahead of that, then 3b away, if it isn't then I'd call.


Making the hand easier is not our goal here.

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Unknown Soldier, what do you put villains CO range on ?

[corsakh]

First thing is a read. Metagame or not, the only thing to drive my decision here will be if he is calling with PP for set value and other garbage here.

In other words I am much more inclined to cbet a CO here, since there is a much bigger chance he is a tool and does not have a strong hand.

UTG, I am c/f a good tag.

PS Matrix: I dont see 3betting JJ as sacrificing anything. Its a protection move against overcards, like one with TT and 99. We are fairly confident that our hand is the best but more often than not we are going to a see a bad flop and being OOP does not help our case. The hand is very vulnerable from the blinds.